# Autism
**URL:** https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055
**Category:** Unbounded
**Created:** [April 26, 2025, 12:18am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055 "2025-04-26T00:18:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2025, 12:18am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/1 "2025-04-26T00:18:16Z")
[ ](https://www.tiktok.com/@tandkaythespectrumway/video/7496631361818643718)
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### Author:  [@LMD](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/LMD)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2025, 2:23am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/2 "2025-04-27T02:23:47Z")
I think the question shouldn’t have been so ambiguous. That’s bad writing. You shouldn’t have to do so much guessing for a math question. It should be easy to tell whether you’ve answered the right question.
I think anyone trying to take the question seriously would see how it’s confusing, and not just someone diagnosed with ASD. I think there is just a legit problem with the question that most people I guess ignore.
The situation in the video seems quite contrived. It’s trying to come across as a candid thing. But it’s like they’re both acting. That’s what my intuition says at least.
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### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2025, 4:04pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/3 "2025-04-27T16:04:34Z")
> [@LMD](#):
>
> I think anyone trying to take the question seriously would see how it’s confusing, and not just someone diagnosed with ASD. I think there is just a legit problem with the question that most people I guess ignore.
I think you don’t know what the world is like. I don’t think they’re acting. Tons of math questions are way worse. And this is not the kind of thing that “anyone … would see”.
Disagreeing about things like this will get you called autistic because a lot of people don’t see it this way and dislike it being pointed out.
You don’t have to answer but did you take a ton of math and other tests in school? Did you notice many more ambiguous or illogical questions? Did you have lots of illogical classmates?
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### Author:  [@ActiveMind](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/ActiveMind)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2025, 8:00pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/4 "2025-04-27T20:00:53Z")
I don’t think I would’ve recognized that the question could be interpreted that way. Maybe I would’ve recognized it if I had made many tests and encountered such a problem before, which I would’ve.
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### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/5 "2025-04-27T20:14:47Z")
Confusing/typo.
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### Author:  [@ActiveMind](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/ActiveMind)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2025, 8:22pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/6 "2025-04-27T20:22:48Z")
Confusing then.
If I made the test or took the test then it wouldn’t have occurred to me that the question could be interpreted the way the woman did.
If I had made many tests then I would’ve adopted a mindset to look out for other such interpretations, because I would’ve come across people making such interpretations before. I think I maybe would’ve caught the error in the question from the video if I had such a mindset.
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### Author:  [@LMD](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/LMD)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2025, 12:32am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/7 "2025-04-28T00:32:56Z")
> [@What Kind of World Do We Live In?](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/what-kind-of-world-do-we-live-in/1714/134):
>
> > [@LMD](#):
> >
> > I think anyone trying to take the question seriously would see how it’s confusing, and not just someone diagnosed with ASD. I think there is just a legit problem with the question that most people I guess ignore.
Hmm I didn’t mean to suggest that anyone would see the problem like this. I think I misspoke. I think that most people would understand what the question was asking and not immediately see an issue with it.
I meant something more like that anyone who tried to analyse it carefully _could_ find that out, and not just asd people? Like ‘normal’ people could understand why it’s a bad question and that they’re reading it in an imprecise way, and be concerned about that. And that perceiving that the question is bad could happen from just learning more about thinking precisely, not necessarily from having asd.
> [@What Kind of World Do We Live In?](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/what-kind-of-world-do-we-live-in/1714/134):
>
> Disagreeing about things like this will get you called autistic because a lot of people don’t see it this way and dislike it being pointed out.
I think that’s true.
Regarding what I meant by ‘acting’, my intuition strongly tells me the following:
That they’re trying to amplify certain autistic mannerisms or play into certain autistic tropes to create autistic content for fans. That not all her body language and what she says in the video is sincere. That we aren’t getting a candid video of an interaction with an autistic person. That we’re seeing stylised autistic content. It feels like what it feels like to watch a bad actor.
I don’t really know how to defend all that though. I don’t know how to analyse things like that explicitly and argue for it. So I don’t know how to go about correcting errors in that.
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### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2025, 5:28pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/8 "2025-04-28T17:28:55Z")
I wonder if you didn’t like the idea that if you saw the problem then you have ASD. But you can deny that while still believing that many people without ASD (and some with ASD) wouldn’t see the problem.
> [@LMD](#):
>
> I meant something more like that anyone who tried to analyse it carefully _could_ find that out, and not just asd people?
I’m not clear on exactly what you mean by “could” but I’m confident lots of people _would not_ even if they spent time thinking about it or you argued with them a bunch. I’m also confident that there’s a correlation where people with “autistic” traits are more likely to see the issue.
> [@LMD](#):
>
> Regarding what I meant by ‘acting’, my intuition strongly tells me the following:
>
> That they’re trying to amplify certain autistic mannerisms or play into certain autistic tropes to create autistic content for fans. That not all her body language and what she says in the video is sincere. That we aren’t getting a candid video of an interaction with an autistic person. That we’re seeing stylised autistic content. It feels like what it feels like to watch a bad actor.
FWIW I think the video showed genuine “autistic” mannerisms (note that there are a wide variety of mannerisms compatible with the “autistic” label).
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### Author:  [@LMD](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/LMD)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2025, 7:10am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/9 "2025-05-07T07:10:38Z")
> [@Elliot](#):
>
> I wonder if you didn’t like the idea that if you saw the problem then you have ASD. But you can deny that while still believing that many people without ASD (and some with ASD) wouldn’t see the problem.
Yes, I don’t like that idea. But I agree yeah.
I think what I don’t like about mental illness content in general, is that I don’t believe in it. I don’t think it’s the right explanation. I don’t think illness is the right way to characterise what’s going on. I think mental illness labels are about stigmatising behaviour.
> [@Elliot](#):
>
> I’m not clear on exactly what you mean by “could” but I’m confident lots of people _would not_ even if they spent time thinking about it or you argued with them a bunch.
I meant it like in principle they could. Like how everyone is a universal knowledge creator. I agree that it’d be really hard and you’re probably right that lots of people still wouldn’t see it.
> [@Elliot](#):
>
> I’m also confident that there’s a correlation where people with “autistic” traits are more likely to see the issue.
I agree with that.
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### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2025, 3:52pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/10 "2025-05-07T15:52:04Z")
> [@What Kind of World Do We Live In?](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/what-kind-of-world-do-we-live-in/1714/154):
>
> > [@Elliot](#):
> >
> > I wonder if you didn’t like the idea that if you saw the problem then you have ASD. But you can deny that while still believing that many people without ASD (and some with ASD) wouldn’t see the problem.
>
> Yes, I don’t like that idea. But I agree yeah.
>
> I think what I don’t like about mental illness content in general, is that I don’t believe in it. I don’t think it’s the right explanation. I don’t think illness is the right way to characterise what’s going on. I think mental illness labels are about stigmatising behaviour.
There is a lot of pro-autism content on TikTok, including from people who identify as autistic. “Autism” has purposes other than stigmatization. Labels can be about more than one thing. Some people find that explanations about and from “autistic” people can help them understand themselves, their partner, or someone they know, and can help navigate some situations better. Most pieces of advice, example stories and explanations about behaviors and emotions aren’t connected to specific theories about the underlying causes of “autism”.
Also, “autism” may involve _physical differences_. That has long been a mainstream hypothesis. For example, read these headlines (I didn’t read the articles, just the headlines):
> **[Lack of neuron ‘pruning’ may be behind many brain-related conditions](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2370409-lack-of-neuron-pruning-may-be-behind-many-brain-related-conditions/)**
>
> Brain scans show that adolescents with more symptoms of certain mental health conditions, autism or ADHD have undergone less pruning than usual of synaptic connections between neurons
> **[Children with Autism Have Extra Synapses in Brain](https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/children-autism-have-extra-synapses-brain)**
>
> Research from David Sulzer’s lab suggests that a delay in the normal elimination of excess synapses in the brain may be a common cause of autism.
“Autism” might involve having more neurons in one’s brain. Although some people who consider it an illness have been quick to come up with ways that having more neurons could be bad, it’s not hard to frame it as an advantage rather than an illness.
Overall, imperfect people with imperfect terminology and biases are trying to talk about issues that seem partly real. One day “autism” will be understood better and I think the answer will **not** be “autism was totally made up and there was nothing going on there, just superstition and bias”.
Physical differences, mental differences that aren’t “illness”, or both, are all compatible with Szasz.
The “autism” trait cluster is broad enough it may involve several separate things that have been incorrectly lumped together. But it’s also specific and visible enough in many examples that it seems like people are trying to understand one or several real phenomena they encounter in life. Being dismissive because people say “mental illness”, which isn’t the right answer, doesn’t help understand what’s actually going on.
EDIT: I should have said synapses not neurons above.
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### Author:  [@anonymous105](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/anonymous105)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/11 "2025-05-07T16:05:22Z")
> [@What Kind of World Do We Live In?](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/what-kind-of-world-do-we-live-in/1714/155):
>
> Some people find that explanations about and from “autistic” people can help them understand themselves, their partner, or someone they know, and can help navigate some situations better.
I am quoting this to add extra emphasis, as I think this happens a lot and it’s a really important positive result of people sharing these stories.
If you have a positive relationship with someone, and respect/like them a lot, you could still experience friction with them sometimes. This is a well known thing. Sometimes, that friction can come about as a result of you not understanding _what the heck they’re thinking_ in some specific subset of interactions.
For example, your friend is generally smart and kind and patient, but in very specific situations they seem to struggle a lot and often get more upset. That would be really frustrating to deal with, and might seem unpredictable… why are they so good at dealing with most problems but then they struggle a lot when dealing with a few seemingly random problems? It can be confusing and it might feel like your friend is just being difficult for no reason, or lead you to some other negative interpretation.
But maybe if you see people sharing stories of autistic experiences you might notice some similarities, and maybe the situations your friend struggles in are not as random as you thought. Maybe they follow some predictable patterns based on autistic trait clusters. That could help you (and maybe help your friend, if they are also unaware of this link) to better predict when a situation will be difficult. That could help you to have more patience for your friend in such a situation, or help your friend avoid those situations, or develop new strategies for dealing with them. Or some other positive outcome, I think there are lots of possibilities.
But you would miss out on all of those opportunities if you just shut down the discussion immediately by doubting that autistic traits are real, or by doubting that autistic traits could possibly apply to your friend (or apply to you.)
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### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/12 "2025-05-07T16:11:01Z")
If you watch the TV show _Love on the Spectrum_, and ignore how condescending it is, I think you may agree there is _something_ going on with the majority of the participants called “autistic” that merits some kind of word or label. There’s some sort of pattern where they do seem to have some things in common. And for a lot of people on the show, partly they do seem to have some problems; there seems to be something negative going on that I don’t think can be fully blamed on society mistreating them.
There are also positive patterns like they tend to approach dating with more honesty than you see on “allistic” shows like _The Bachelor_ or _Love Is Blind_. They also show more concern for consent but I’m not sure how much that’s due to the coaching they’re getting. Though I bet a ton of “allistic” people would be unwilling to show that much concern for consent even if they had received recent coaching.
There also exist “high functioning autistic” people who have some “autistic” traits but also come off as very smart and able to navigate adult life without special help. A fair amount of computer programmers, including highly paid successful people at companies like Google and Meta, have some “autistic” traits. Can any “autism” concepts be useful or relevant to those people? Yes. Just like the less successful “autistic” people, they more often get overstimulated (e.g. at loud concerts or in big crowds), have some “OCD” type traits (like wanting to keep things organized and being kind of “picky” about it), are bothered by uncomfortable clothing including tags or sock seams, take things literally, try to follow rules, want to discuss things in clear, explicit ways or find social dynamics confusing. I doubt I did a great job describing the trait cluster here briefly from memory; I bet I forgot some notable things; I think other content that talks about the trait cluster can have some value.
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### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/13 "2025-05-07T16:23:11Z")
Here’s a conjecture I just thought of, which is kind of big and bold and may be false, but I thought it was interesting enough to be a worthwhile conjecture even if it’s false. If it’s false, investigating it and learning it’s false could still be interesting. I’ll split it into 3 parts:
Conjecture part 1: Most people who come up with important new knowledge have some “autistic” traits. This applies to science, math, philosophy, etc.
Conjecture part 2: A lot of good new knowledge is rejected by mainstream society for years, for decades or indefinitely. (This is a pre-existing belief I had, which lots of people believe, and which there are lots of examples of.)
Conjecture part 3: A lot of good new knowledge is rejected **because** the person who came up with it has stigmatized, disliked “autistic” traits.
Maybe one of the reasons that many great discoveries and discoverers are treated poorly for a long time is because it keeps being “autistic” people doing the discovering.
The mechanism could be direct dislike of discoverers or indirect via the discovers having weaker social networks (because of not being well-liked, etc., as a long term element of their career separate from their discovery and people’s direct evaluations of them related to the discovery).
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### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2025, 6:56pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/autism/2055/14 "2025-05-07T18:56:28Z")
> [@LMD](#):
>
> The situation in the video seems quite contrived. It’s trying to come across as a candid thing. But it’s like they’re both acting. That’s what my intuition says at least.
Intuitively perceiving people with autistic traits as inauthentic is a common bias. It’s one of the reasons they’re often treated poorly and disliked.