Debate about Competition

[Dface]

@Eternity

@Dface

I think I can say:

I don’t have a favorable opinion of competition cuz of my personal experience with it.

So are you now agreeing with me?

I think yes. I don’t know if our reasons are the same or if they gotta be the same to agree. I don’t think I’m a big fan of competition either. I get stressed out about it and losing sucks. Idk if im making mistakes there or if that’s cuz competition is bad.

[Dface]

@Dface

I don’t have a favorable opinion of competition cuz of my personal experience with it.

Can I add this to the debate tree? Should ask if I can add stuff? Or should I do my best and stuff will get changed later?

[Dface]

@Eternity

Ahh, that makes sense. Maybe practicing is the right word? Idk.

Idk either I think I should look it up.

@Eternity

I think when you say practice competition my mind goes to practicing having a competitive mindset or something.

I was probably thinking that too. I don’t want to say that’s a wrong interpretation.

Practicing something sounds like practicing a religion. Like, you do what you believe in. Idk if this is related to practicing competition.

@Eternity

Otherwise practicing competition would just be practicing the thing you’re competing in (which seems to be more about practicing the thing and less “practicing” competition).

So if you were playing soccer and practicing competition, you would be practicing on your soccer skills? It’s a competition cuz you’re probably competing with your teammates to win.

[Eternity]

@Dface

Can I add this to the debate tree? Should ask if I can add stuff? Or should I do my best and stuff will get changed later?

I mean, if you were a third party it would make sense to ask, but it’s just us. The debate tree was made for our debate.

Feel free to add stuff to it! I’ll tell you if there was a problem or not.

[Dface]

@Eternity

I mean, if you were a third party it would make sense to ask, but it’s just us. The debate tree was made for our debate.

That’s the second time you said “it’s just us.” This time it was when I asked if it was ok if I posted on the debate tree. I think im making mistakes here or disagreeing with you. This sounds like a meta thing to talk about. Maybe on my own.

The first time was here:

@Eternity

@Dface

Edit: a part of me doesnt want to reply to everything cuz I think I might clog up the thread. Like, isn’t it better to talk about a few things at a time in a debate?

I mean, it’s just us. It’s fine! I would say maybe for organization sakes it may be better to multiple posts responding to points, instead of having one big post responding to everything (kind of like what I’m doing).

[Dface]

@Eternity

@Dface

A part of me thought whenever you play a game where you could win or lose, you’re being competitive. I didn’t think about the distinction of playing to have fun vs. playing to win.

I mean technically you are. I think it’s more of a mindset thing. Some people can enter a competition and only think about the competing aspect and winning or losing. Others can enter a competition and just focus on doing well and enjoying it.

Yeah, I think in your example below using League of Legends, you’re entering a competition:

@Eternity

What do you mean by practice competition? Like if you’re playing a game like League of Legends and are just having fun, but not being “competitive”, you would make yourself more competitive?

You could think only about the competing aspect and win or lose or you can think about having fun.

Also, I don’t think I see how competing is a mindset thing. I have a feeling I don’t know what mindset means. Mindset sounds like having goals in mind. Like, if you have a positive mindset then you have the goal of focusing on good things. If you have a negative mindset then you got a goal of focusing on bad things. Not too sure about this

[Eternity]

@Dface

That’s the second time you said “it’s just us.” This time it was when I asked if it was ok if I posted on the debate tree. I think im making mistakes here or disagreeing with you. This sounds like a meta thing to talk about. Maybe on my own.

Hmm. Maybe? It could be I’m assuming a friendliness between us that you’re not or something?

The reason I said it was just us is because this debate is more of a friendly debate. Since we both agreed to have this more-or-less friendlier debate I was trying to convey not to worry too much about things. This isn’t some high-stake debate or a debate between two people who may dislike each other. There’s no reason to worry too much about things.

If you clog up the forum I’d let you know or just enter things into the debate tree. Hmm. I think I’m trying to convey that you shouldn’t worry too much.

[Dface]

@Eternity

This isn’t some high-stake debate or a debate between two people who may dislike each other. There’s no reason to worry too much about things.

Yeah, it’s also not a big political debate. Like, we’re not debating abortion or another hot topic. Also, we’re not coming into the debate thinking it’s soooo dumb/insane to believe the other side.

Also, I kind of see there’s no reason to worry too much. I think im just worried about about being super irrational or stuck cuz then it’s gonna be hard to make progress.

@Eternity

If you clog up the forum I’d let you know or just enter things into the debate tree.

For sure

@Eternity

Hmm. I think I’m trying to convey that you shouldn’t worry too much.

Thats a thing a lot of people tell me to do. I think it would be good to learn that. Also, it’s like a mistake to worry too much. Maybe a little is ok but a lot sounds like an error.

[Dface]

@Eternity

This is not about economic competition. Maybe some of the stuff I’ll say can apply there, but my issue is more so with competition in general. Sports and video games are the two places where I know there is a lot of competition, but people compete in a lot of things. There are baking contests, art contests, music contests, architecture contests (though I think that was just The Fountainhead), and much more.

So some stuff your claim talks about may apply to economic competition. How much of it applies to baking contests, art contests, architecture contests, etc? It might apply there more than economic competition.

@Eternity

Something that comes to mind is any kind of sports media (I’m unfamiliar with sports themselves, I’m assuming here that media like movies and anime are accurate in this respect I’m discussing) where you follow a team and see everything they do to win.

I see sports fans be really into their sport’s team. Like, if their team wins, then they as a fan win too. Idk how tht really works, but I think there are always talks about being at the top. Being at the top seems to be the goal.

What I wonder is what are the goals in the middle? Are they to beat one team or qualify a bracket? Is this related to the issue about not appreciating what’s been accomplished?

[Dface]

@Eternity

You follow this team, see all the struggles they go through, and eventually see them win. That’s great. However, what about the other teams? Sometimes you see their perspective. Their crushed, devastated. They say things to make themselves feel better, but at the end of the day they didn’t win. My issue is related to how caught up they can get in the loss.

First two sentences:

@Eternity

You follow this team, see all the struggles they go through, and eventually see them win. That’s great.

I think imo I don’t appreciate when other teams win. Like, I don’t see what’s so great when stuff like that happens. I think it’s partly from being a contrarion(idk why i am), partly from not following along with the team’s struggles and not understanding, and maybe from trying not to fit in or being kinda hostile.

I do like tho when my favorite anime protagonists wins, especially in a competition arc/plotline. They can be the underdog and prove everybody wrong and win. Idk why watching others win or doing it myself feels good. It’s like it matters so much.

@Eternity

However, what about the other teams? Sometimes you see their perspective.

It seems like you either win or you lose. What if your only goals rely on winning? If you’re facing the top people in the world, you’re gonna fail a lot. You might never win, and when you lose, it’s like it doesn’t matter at what place. How does it feel to lose at 2nd place versus 10th place in the world cup?

I think my disagreement was you don’t have to focus on winning. If you focus more on your personal goals then competition could be good. I just think tho that im playing devil’s advocate here and haven’t fully succeeded at my claim. Sometimes it’s too hard to not focus too much on losing and winning. It’s like if I lose then nothing matters cuz I lost. If I was actually smarter and achieved my goals then I would win too.

[Elliot]

A different kind of competition besides team vs team is leaderboards like speedrun.com You guys might like to analyze leaderboard climbing.

[Dface]

I accidentally pressed post for this reply

[Dface]

@Elliot

A different kind of competition besides team vs team is leaderboards like speedrun.com

That’s good to know that there’s different kinds of competition. It’s not just the one kind to talk about. It’d be nice to compare the two and see how it can help the debate. Maybe we can debate but use the different kinds of competition to make our points.

Also, I think it’d just be good to know what we’re talking about.

@Elliot

You guys might like to analyze leaderboard climbing.

I’d like to know how that works. I already gemini’ed and learned some about it. Like, there’s something called Dense Ranking that leaderboards use. If two people have the same highest score on a video game then both will get 1st place. I wonder if all leaderboards in leaderboard climbing use Dense Ranking.

[Dface]

Here’s a quote about the definition of leaderboards(link is at the bottom of the reply):

Leaderboard definition

A leaderboard is a ranked list that orders participants - people, teams, players or departments - from best to worst based on a single score or metric, and refreshes as those scores change.

What’s a ranked list? Ranked is stuff like rank 1 or rank 2 or rank 3? That’s like being in first place or second place. I think when you rank something it’s in a certain order. The order is based off a metric no? Like, the highest amount of kills on a video game or the fastest time?

That’s interesting I kind of got an idea about what a leaderboard is after writing the last paragraph. That was before reading the entire quote. It’s like if you use knowledge of other things then you can do the goal of figuring out what a leaderboard is.

I see that a leaderboard has a list of participants. I know they’re ranked but also they could be people, teams or other things. I’m thinking in a dichotomous way like you can either be by yourself or in a group.

So far I see how leaderboard climbing is a kind of competition. If you have something that’s measurable in an activity, you can make a competition out of it. Like, who can solve the rubik’s cube the fastest? Another one is who can solve the most rubik’s cubes in an allotted time? There’s a lot of things to make competitions out of.

Edit: Forgot to include the link:

What Is a Leaderboard? Definition, Types & How to Make One

[Dface]

From the same website:

How a leaderboard works

Under the hood, a leaderboard does one job: it ranks. You choose a metric, every participant gets a score in that metric, and the leaderboard sorts them - normally from highest to lowest (though a race leaderboard might sort by fastest time, lowest first).

I thought I reply to this cuz a leaderboard is what’s used by everyone who leaderboard climbs.

Something that stood out to me is when the author said the job of the leaderboard. Its job is to rank. That makes me think that the leaderboard isn’t an entity that thinks bad ideas. It’s us who has problems related to competition and trying to win. Is this related to the debate? Also, is this why competition isn’t inherently bad?

Also, I’m wondering if a thing made by people can be bad? Like, can it have a bad idea? Could it make people think bad or toxic things? What if there’s a leaderboard that idk tracks someone’s body count and then people feel bad for having a low one. Is it the leaderboard’s fault? Or the one who created it? Are those the right questions to ask?