If you’ve never heard of breakpoints, you can still reason about anything, including continuums, using conjectures and refutations. And you can still evaluate specific ideas as refuted or non-refuted for particular goals in particular contexts and use decisive arguments and have paths forward.
Do you mean without using breakpoints implicitly? Like people can create knowledge without having heard of evolution, but it would be correct to say evolution is necessary for knowledge creation.
So breakpoints wouldn’t be necessary like evolution is necessary because you can reason without even using it implicitly.
I hadn’t realized that you had already answered, I missed your reply somehow.
I don’t really understand what your explanations after “cuz” are for. Are you saying that you’re dying 5 times and 20 times to some bosses? Are they like difficulty points? Is there something else that is 5 and 20 or happened that many times? Like what exactly are those amounts? Maybe you had an intuition that those would be the correct amounts for some bosses?
Yeah I kind of dont know either I thought I could find the breakpoint from dying to a boss a lot and not beating them
Yeah, like it depends on what souls game and how hard the boss is.
I dont know what a difficulty point is. Is that like the more points a boss has the more difficult it is? Sorry i dont know how to answer the question
I think yeah like that’s how many times a person missed a certain boss combo attacks and that’s what killed them.
Yeah i did i think but now i think it probably depends on everyone’s skill level so the amount of times someone dies to a boss may vary.
Edit: When I say, “I think yeah like that’s how many times a person missed a certain boss combo attacks” I mean like when the player doesn’t avoid or dodge a boss’ attack combo. Bosses in those game tend to do a string of attacks the player has to avoid
I was just guessing at something you may have thought. Difficulty points would be giving bosses a score based on how difficult they are. People do that sometimes but I just thought up the terminology “difficulty points”. I think such could only be approximate and would be flawed according to CF. This isn’t the topic we are discussing though.
So my answer is that it’s not a breakpoint. It’s actually a binary goal.
The reason is that in order to progress you have to not die against the boss. You don’t get close to beating the boss by dying more. You do get closer to beating the boss by increasing in skill level. And it’s true that you increase in skill level by attempting and dying a lot, but if you merely restarted the fight without trying to improve or beat the boss then dying more won’t help. So “dying a lot” isn’t the issue, it’s about increasing in skill level.
you could have breakpoints for skill level. although using quantities for skill level is probably just an approximation. like you can be so good that you take no hits, but it’s fine to take some hits (I assume), so the breakpoint for skill level wouldn’t be so high that you need to take no hits. Amount of hits taken could be a breakpoint for beating a boss, like you can take 5 hits, but if you take 6 hits you’re dead.
I think you could also think of there being breakpoints for percentages of times not getting hit by certain attack patterns. You don’t need a 99% no hit rate, but maybe you need to be at the skill level where you have 80% no hit rate for a certain attack pattern. That would also be a breakpoint for beating a boss, not the entire game.
Oh ok I thought that’s what you meant
Oh actually? I think I saw something about binary goals in the CF article in this thread. How they’re different from breakpoints. I gotta go back n look in the article for this.
Yeah I agree. Maybe by dying to the boss the player might pick up an intuition or two about its attacks, but dying a lot does not itself get the player closer to beating the boss. What gets them closer is if they learn.
Yeah the player can usually take some hits to beat a boss. They don’t gotta be a pro who doesnt get damaged at all.
oh ok i think i see how breakpoints work in a scenario like this. I keep trying to relate the concept about how breakpoints show a qualitative difference on an analog spectrum, but it’s hard. It’s ok tho ill learn at some point.
yeah there is an amount of getting hit that makes the difference between you dying(n retrying) and you living and beating the boss. I know players can get just avoid attacks and not attack the boss at all but im assuming the player is damaging the boss.
Yeah I knew about this edge case but it’s reasonable to assume the player will damage the boss consistently and not totally stop midway through or anything.
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For practicing Dark Souls bosses, the quantity you increase is skill. The standard breakpoint is having enough skill to beat the boss once.
Skill is hard to measure, so we often measure a proxy such as damage done to the boss. In that case, the breakpoint is the amount needed to win: 100% of the boss’ health.
Winning is a breakpoint because it lets you get the boss’ loot and advance to new areas past the boss.
It’s also possible to have a different goal and therefore a different breakpoint. For example, you might want to do a no hit run of the game, so you’d need a higher skill level for that, so the breakpoint would be a higher amount of skill than before.
Is skill exactly a continuum?
Can I deal with this breakpoint in a binary way? Like one side is having enough skill to beat the boss once. On the other side, it’s less than enough skill and I won’t beat the boss once.
I’m trying to use this quote:
One side of the breakpoint is 100% of the boss’ health needed to win. The other side is less than 100%. The other side is not enough to win.
Can I deal with this breakpoint in a binary way as well? Winning the boss fight is one side and let’s you get boss items and explore new areas after the boss. The other side of the breakpoint is losing to the boss and it won’t let you get boss items and explore new areas.
Is the breakpoint for the no hit run to beat a boss: 100 % of the boss’ health and 0 damage taken?
Just an application of breakpoints: Typically in games you can deal more than 100% of the boss’ health. If the boss has 5 health left any attack that does 5 or more damage crosses the breakpoint. Dealing more than 5 damage is unnecessary but works just as well.
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Oh so what issue to focus on is something to judge as well? Like, if we’re trying to consider a problem, lots of parts of the problem will get a quick pass/fail evaluation for if we should focus on them.
To get good at finding major and minor problems can you try to predict what is and isn’t a major problem? And when you do solve the whole problem you check to see if you were right.
Oh ok i dont have any immediate examples in mind, but I think i see