JustinCEO Topic

Also, I suggested trees or outlines after you said that you were planning on making an outline for your blog, in order to explain the discussion to other people. So that was part of the context of my suggestion. You seemed to indicate that you were capable of making an outline of the discussion. And my thought was that if you are capable of doing that, why are you willing to do it for a blog post to explain the discussion to other people, but not willing to do it during the discussion itself, to keep better track of the discussion and make it go more smoothly.

Your response to that seems to be to imply that you aren’t actually capable of figuring out how to make a useful tree or outline yourself, and that you need back and forth discussion to do a good job, and also that you doubt that trees or outlines are even useful and helpful in the first place.

Continuing discussion from Silent Spring - #19 by alanforr

Some more context around your quote from the book:

EDIT: THE BELOW QUOTE APPEARS TO BE A MISQUOTE. I AM LEAVING IT AS IS SO THE CONTEXT OF CRITICISM I RECEIVED BELOW IS CLEAR, BUT I AM PUTTING THIS WARNING UP SO AS NOT TO SPREAD A MISQUOTE.

An individual may have many different exposures to the same chemical. Arsenic is an example. It exists in the environment of every individual in many different guises: as an air pollutant, a contaminant of water, a pesticide residue on food, in medicines, cosmetics, wood preservatives, or as a coloring agent in paints and inks. It is quite possible that no one of these exposures alone would be sufficient to precipitate malignancy—yet any single supposedly ‘safe dose’ may be enough to tip the scales that are already loaded with other ‘safe doses’. Or again the harm may be done by two or more different carcinogens acting together, so that there is a summation of their effects. The individual exposed to DDT, for example, is almost certain to be exposed to other liver-damaging hydrocarbons, which are so widely used as solvents, paint removers, degreasing agents, dry-cleaning fluids, and anesthetics. What then can be a ‘safe dose’ of DDT?

I think Carson is expressing skepticism that there can be a safe dose of DDT in full context of the likely other potential things one is exposed to. I think maybe some people are reading her claim as a claim that there is no safe dose of DDT inherently - that even the tiniest possible amount of DDT is unsafe to humans, without considering the context of other things to which they are exposed. I think her language about “tip the scales” is key to interpreting her: she’s saying that DDT could push you above a critical threshold. It would have been clearer if she’d asked “What then can be a ‘safe dose’ of DDT [in this context]?”, but I think that’s what she was going for.

My copy of the book shows the part you are quoting as being from two different paragraphs. Is your copy different, or is that a misquote?

The copy I was quoting from is different and has it in the same paragraph.

What edition are you using?

I found it online on a website. It lacks a standard publication information page that books typically have with the year of publication. It may have originally been produced for publication in India based on this note:

(ONE SINGLE BOOK WHICH BROUGHT THE ISSUE OF PESTICIDES CENTERSTAGE. WITH MASS SCALE POISONING OF THE LAND WITH PESTICIDES AND WITH THOUSANDS OF FARMERS COMMITTING SUICIDE THIS BOOK IS ESSENTIAL FOR PUBLIC RESEARCH IN INDIA.)

It is published as a Crest Book and has the following information:

A CREST REPRINT

FAWCETT PUBLICATIONS, INC., GREENWICH, CONN.

MEMBER OF AMERICAN BOOK PUBLISHERS COUNCIL, INC.

Ok, so it seems like you are using a pirated copy of the book. Since the copy you used doesn’t even have the proper publication information, I would not trust the formatting to be correct.

Since you knew it was a pirated copy, it is weird that you initially doubled down on what I assume is a misquote, by implying that you have a legitimate copy of the book with that formatting.

When I questioned your quote, you said:

You could have instead said that you don’t actually have a legitimate copy of the book, and were quoting from a copy you obtained online.

I had to ask two questions to get enough information to figure out that you are probably just spreading misquotes.

All the the versions I have seen are later editions, so initially I was thinking it was possible that her original version was substantially edited later. I didn’t want to just assume you were misquoting. But now I assume your quote was just a misquote.

Sorry. I agree my reply was misleading. I was trying to reply quickly amid some distractions and didn’t sufficiently think about my response. I will avoid replying to things in the middle of a weekday going forward.

I feel bad. I was specifically trying to avoid misquoting recently and I wound up doing it again. I also thought I’d identified a topic I could make a small contribution to but screwed it up anyways. I also wasted @anonymous88’s time. Sorry everyone.

Right. I should have been able to figure out the context of the suggestion. I think part of me was throwing up barriers to making progress by reading things in way that increased the burdens of trying to implement the helpful suggestion you offered.

Right. I see the problem there now. Sorry about that.

I agree that trying trees might help and is worth a try. I do think there’s a good chance I would screw them up, though, given that I apparently can’t avoid misquotes when I’ve been recently trying to avoid things like misquotes by reviewing the rules.

I think I have some kind of negative thinking pattern operating which is causing problems. (I’m not trying to open another discussion branch, just briefly describing my take on an issue). I think I have a negative moral self-evaluation [EDIT: and low evaluation regarding competency as well], am pessimistic about the discussions I’m a part of making progress, and lack a positive motivation for engaging on the forum, and these factors all sort of feedback onto each other in an endless despair loop when I try to engage on the forum. I’m taking steps to work on my personal issues off the forum, which I think might help. May take a while though.