Looking for better alternatives to self-discipline

This is very relevant here as well. I really liked the following part:

Don’t assume the conclusion that certain ideas are the right ones (something similar might be right but in their current form those ideas are unable to address the other side’s points well enough to reach a conclusion, so they’re actually wrong).

I always thought that if something is true why shouldn’t I just tyrannize myself. The explanation inside the brackets explain why I shouldn’t. Even though I think I know the right theory it’s not totally correct because if it were it would’ve defeated/convinced the other theory.

Wait, could it be the case the the other (emotional/inexplicit) part of me that is having other ideas (of not feeling motivated about doing something which I can explicitly conclude is right) is irrational so it is not convinced by a true theory?

Edit: My bad. It says in the next paragraph that don’t declare parts of yourself as irrational among other things.
Edit 2: Question after noticing the error: how does one reason with emotional part of themselves? By using non-judgmental introspection?

When Jordan Peterson talks about cleaning your room he’s talking about forming a habit of cleaning your room everyday. I was thinking that to start a self reinforcing cycle you need a reward on completing the task. Is that correct? Is this a good self help idea. Reward here is something like thinking that you are making progress and feeling good about that instead of thinking that cleaning your room is nothing to feel good about.

Also does it make sense to think of being able to do a task vs being able to form a habit of doing that task regularly as two separate things. I think it does. If a person isn’t able to form habits how can that person improve? what does that person lack?

Does it make sense to think of forming a habit as a perpetual motion machine cycle that keeps running on it’s own and no new effort needs to be put in to start it again. It just keeps running on its own. Or is it unrealistic to expect that?

I am using the coercion idea to come to this conclusion that one should expect that doing tasks should feel effortless. If not then you should try to try to find out where the resistance is and then remove it. If you’re not successful in removing the resistance then you shouldn’t continue anyways. You should do something else.

This sounds like arm chair philosophy stuff to me. One reason for that is you keep switching without making any progress then you are never gonna accomplish anything. I guess I don’t understand what it means to have no coercion and am making other errors as well. Can you point out the errors with my reasoning. Also what CF say about this? That encountering some resistance is normal. Things feeling as effortless as breathing is an unrealistic benchmark.

A relevant thing Elliot said here:

If you think 3 hours means the video cost 20% of a day, you’d be wrong. It definitely cost more than that. I can’t write for 15 hours a day. Not even close. Even the easier stuff like animating or editing would be too hard to do for that long per day.

3 hours of good focus and creativity in a day is plenty. Add 5 hours of easier stuff and that’s enough to burn most people out if they average that much, 7 days a week, for a few months. (That’s assuming they weren’t tired out at the start and they get enough sleep, or it’d be worse.)

3 hours of creative + 5 hours of easier stuff will burn out most people. So thinking that things can start feeling as effortless as breathing contradicts with the idea that people burn out. So what is right expectation? When one desires to be free of coercion or if not completely free then to a great extent what would that mean? How does the experience of a person changes when they become free of coercion? Expecting that after removing coercion tasks will start feeling effortless seems wrong to me now but I don’t understand why.

Edit: I wrote ‘want’ in the last line of the first paragraph but changed it to ‘expect’ because that makes more sense.

I like the chaos order metaphor that Jordan Peterson uses. It fits very well with CF ideas like overreaching. He says order is when you’re in control of a situation. If you want to pick up your phone, you’re in control of that situation. You rarely fail at that task. If you do fail you know why and and can improve so that you don’t fail for that reason again. I see the idea of setting up cycles like clean your room/ make your bed daily as establishing order in your life. Order shouldn’t take up your energy. Energy should be used to tame chaos and bring it into order. Doing arm chair philosophy and reaching to the conclusion that making your bed or flossing your teeth and similar stuff should feel effortless is a way to introduce chaos into simple things that should help you set up order. If you’re not able to build the habit of flossing then you could try to change the activity in some ways like listening to music so that you like flossing. You could try to figure out what is it about flossing that you don’t like? In my case I figured out that I don’t see the role of habits and for me whether to floss or not is a decision to make everyday. That’s counter productive. A habit is a helpful cycle that produces a useful output towards your goal everytime you complete the cycle hence you should automate that cycle. You shouldn’t have to think about starting another loop of that cycle everytime.

I’m pasting the autogenerated transcript from the video I linked because I really like one thing he said. I’m adding some punctuations because there aren’t any so I’m adding ones that make sense to me so somethings can be wrong.

Order is when you’re where what you’re doing is producing what you want to have happen. okay so why is that orderly? because you can predict it. you do a and you want B to happen and B happens. so what does that mean? it means you know where you are, you know what you’re doing, and things are working. and then you’re calm because there’s nothing to be nervous about, and you’re moderately happy because you’re getting what you need and want, and there’s evidence that you are competent because that’s why things are working. that’s order.

I guess that having order can make you calm and happy. Concluding that you’re competent because you have established order makes more sense to me. To build a habit you need competence like being able to keep a goal in mind. For example flossing is gonna keep your teeth and gums healthy. Keeping them healthy is most likely a long term goal of yours. Being able to keep that in mind and automatizing it and not having to make that decision again and again and fighting your laziness are skills.

If you are competent at these skills you will be able to form habits. You can feel good about having these skills and that good feeling can be the reward required to set up a positive reinforcement cycle.