# Non-Tribalist Politics Megathread
**URL:** https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449
**Category:** Other
**Tags:** politics
**Created:** [December 19, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449 "2021-12-19T19:55:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 21
### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2026, 4:41pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449/403 "2026-05-12T16:41:17Z")
All large groups have lots of flaws.
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### Author:  [@Eternity](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Eternity)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2026, 2:21am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449/404 "2026-05-13T02:21:23Z")
~yeah that’s fair. I think the mistake I’m making here is that because a lot more Republican/right-leaning/conservative/whatever flaws are being discussed more as compared to Democrat/left-leaning/liberal/whatever flaws. I think part of me is starting to think that Democrats/liberals are good. Not better than Republican/conservatives, but actually _good_ and that bothers me. Not because they have to be bad in my head, but because I’m getting a vague feeling they they are actually good without addressing all the problems they have/I think they have.
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### Author:  [@anonymous105](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/anonymous105)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2026, 3:44am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449/405 "2026-05-13T03:44:08Z")
> [@Eternity](#):
>
> Not better than Republican/conservatives, but actually _good_ and that bothers me.
One thing that may be worth considering is context. So e.g. in the context of philosophically examining arguments, maybe neither of them are _good_, so this concern of yours is a good one to keep in mind. But it could also be true that in the context of political action in the world, one of them might actually be good.
I think this is because how good a choice is may change based on the available options. It could be that all of your options are _so_ bad that basically they all suck and your situation is fucked and it would be wrong to call any of them good. e.g. maybe you have to choose between cutting off your hands and feet, or letting someone murder all of your friends and family.
But a lot of decisions aren’t like that. You may not always have access to your preferred choice. You may have criticisms of all available choices. But you may still need to choose anyway, and then it could make sense to consider the best option good. Not just better than the alternatives, but good, because… well, it is the best option you have.
e.g. maybe you rank foods like this (best to worst)
1. Thai curry
2. Indian curry
3. Sushi
4. Shawarma
5. Korean bbq
6. American bbq
7. Fried chicken
8. Hot dogs
9. Nepali momos
10. Ethiopian curry
11. Pizza
Then we skip ahead a bunch of food options and we get to the bottom of your list
1. Burgers
2. Deli sandwiches
3. Burritos
And one day you are out somewhere and you need to get food, and there are four options that are within your distance/price budget: Burritos, Burgers, Deli sandwiches, and Pizza. What do you do?
Is Pizza your favorite? Nah, it’s not even in your top 10! But you like it fine. You don’t hate it. The other three options are your least favorite foods ever. So you get pizza, obviously.
Was pizza the best option? Yeah. Was pizza a _good_ option? Also yeah, I think so. You had to eat something. Eating nothing at all would probably be worse than even your most hated foods (maybe not for one meal, which you could skip, but you get what I mean. just pretend these are your options for a week or something.)
Politics is a bit tricky because it can be engaged with in multiple different ways. You can examine the arguments intellectually and be generally dispassionate/uninvolved. That can be fine, but at the same time, politics also does tangibly impact the world in massive ways. And e.g. when you vote or support a particular candidate/party, you are doing that _in the real world_, not just intellectually as a thought experiment.
So it could be that the best option from the ones that are actually available to you is still flawed. It’s not in your top 10. But it might still be _good_ anyway.
At this point the question then becomes: is this more of a “cut off hands and feet vs. all my loved ones die” scenario, or is it more of a “pick my not-favorite food vs. pick my most hated food” scenario? Sometimes, even the best political option might suck so much you cannot in good conscience really support it, and you’re better off just disengaging or fleeing the country or something.
But a lot of times, the best option could actually be considered _good_ in the context of your available choices.
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### Author:  [@anonymous105](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/anonymous105)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2026, 4:06am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449/406 "2026-05-13T04:06:19Z")
Just to add onto my comment with some disclosures of my personal beliefs:
I used to think the Republicans were _good_ in practical terms, in the way I’m talking about in the above post. I had a _lot_ of disagreements with the Republican party and most high profile Republicans. But I thought they were overall better, a net positive for the country. Within the context of a two party political system where someone is gonna win and govern, they were _good_.
I no longer think that. I now think roughly the same thing of the Democrats. I have huge issues with them, disagree with many high profile Democrats on many topics, and generally think their quality of argument is poor. But I think they are _good_ in the context of the political system. I think they’ll do more overall good stuff, and be more of a net positive than the Republicans. I think the difference is meaningful; they are not just both equally terrible in my view.
But it is also worth mentioning: did my estimation of Democrats and the left go up? Eh. Yeah, maybe in some specific cases where I changed my mind. But that is not the _primary_ thing that happened. Mainly, my view of Republicans went _way way way down._ The fact that I think I should basically vote party-line Democrat for the foreseeable future is a bummer to me. It’s a sign things have gotten really bad.
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### Author:  [@anonymous105](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/anonymous105)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2026, 4:16am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449/407 "2026-05-13T04:16:12Z")
> [@Eternity](#):
>
> Like trans stuff. I was more-or-less anti trans. The voicing informing me of this political issue were against it so I followed them. Now I’m more sympathetic and think that the right is wrong and mean about these issues (though I don’t have a thorough understanding of trans issues, tbh thats true for many political issues). I wonder why?
I do think this is concerning. Even if you decide one tribe is overall better and might be _good_ in practical terms, you should not simply follow the tribe for your broad positions. That is pretty risky. I think it was pretty easy to tell that the right was always wrong and mean on LGBT issues; in the past I just thought that those issues were settled and not important on the national political stage. I thought Republicans had (wisely) conceded on those issues. I was very very wrong, of course.
But if you thought the Republicans were _right_ on those issues, then it might be good to ask yourself why. Was it just because you thought they were better overall so they must be right? Was there some specific argument that persuaded you?
An important aspect of being non-tribal, especially if one tribe seems better overall, is not letting yourself be pressured into agreeing with that tribe about everything.
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### Author:  [@Eternity](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Eternity)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2026, 3:36am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449/408 "2026-05-20T03:36:10Z")
> [@anonymous105](#):
>
> But if you thought the Republicans were _right_ on those issues, then it might be good to ask yourself why
i forgot about this. ill reply to the other stuff soon but i wanted to comment on why I thought Republicans were good (I thought about for a few days after reading this).
i grew up liberal (kinda) became conservative. idk if i ever felt like i explicitly approached it tribally (though do most people?). i just got easily convinced about stuff.
i will say one reason i agreed with republicans with issues like trans is because they’re more or less the ones who introduced me to the issue and framed it for me. (american) politics were never a big part of my parents lives. why i said i kinda grew up liberal. i remember agreeing with liberal stuff in like elementary/middle school from minor political discussioms in class, but i never gave it much thought. when i started getting into politics because of stuff like gamergate and all that, republicans started introducing me to political issues and talking points.
I’d say ive been pretty passive in my approach to politics for most of my life.
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### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2026, 4:39am UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449/409 "2026-05-25T04:39:59Z")
29 posts were split to a new topic: [Immigration; Asmongold; Politics](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/immigration-asmongold-politics/2217)
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### Author:  [@Elliot](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/u/Elliot)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2026, 5:39pm UTC](https://discuss.criticalfallibilism.com/t/non-tribalist-politics-megathread/449/415 "2026-05-20T17:39:16Z")
> [@Eternity](#):
>
> I’d say ive been pretty passive in my approach to politics for most of my life.
What made politics appealing or interesting but without you wanting to approach it more actively?
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