I know she doesn’t like him. I think it was because he was unprincipled
It seems weird to me that you like capitalism because of Rand but then listen to one of her intellectual enemies about what capitalism is. Do you see the problem?
It seems like maybe you’re assuming her objections to Friedman were limited or picky or something reasonable for you to ignore?
Try looking up what she said about him.
Mmm. More like. from what I can remember, what I got from that essay of Friedman wasn’t part of her objections. Mainly the stuff about the price system is what I liked. His opinion on what Capitalism actually is, I didn’t care about. He’s probably wrong about it. I guess I could’ve read Mises (which is why I have the idea that the price system is important) but I haven’t really. Mmm.
I kinda read it like reading from an economics professor in a regular school. I assume most would be Miss Rands intellectual enemies. I still think I could get some information about economics from them. I’ve heard stuff like economists have a lot of common ground stuff they agree with. I think its fine to learn about supply and demand curves and stuff from a regular college professor. In the same way I learned from Friedman about the price system (btw I only read the essay for class, otherwise I would have not read it).
Sure! I will in a bit. A refresher would be good.
Why do you think that? I think you’re just assuming it for some reason. I suspect you have a bias to think that if you ran into propaganda or bad ideas, you would notice. You didn’t notice, therefore it’s fine. That’s a common bias. Most people underestimate how subtle propaganda and bias can be and overestimate how clever and discerning they are.
I don’t think your take is actually based on what Rand said. She tried pretty hard to warn people against Friedman without saying “except he’s good at basic economics” or “I’m only criticizing this part”.
Do you think that would be Rand’s opinion?
Also, do you think Rand said something like, paraphrasing, “People think Friedman is great, but he isn’t. Actually, he’s about as good or bad as a regular economics professor.”? Is that what you think her opinion was?
I’m responding one more before looking into Friedman.
Mmm. I’m probably assuming it? I’m unsure. From what I remember Miss Rand was not a fan of many people, like Friedman, who pushed for Capitalism on pragmatic “it works” kinds of grounds. I think Friedman fit into that and that she also had issues with Friedman’s monetary(?) theory and stuff like his support for school vouchers.
Hmm. I guess I didn’t take her points about those kinds of people being enemies of Capitalism seriously? To me they were enemies in how they give support to Capitalism, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t get some things right about the economics of Capitalism. I assume they did some research and know some things to support their pragmatic defense of Capitalism.
I don’t think I would notice propaganda or bad idea (though, tbh, I guess a part of me does think if an idea is bad enough or propaganda obvious enough I would notice it), I do think if I don’t notice bias it’s fine yeah.
Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to make it sound like it was. I was just going off of what I remembered in writing about Rand. Her criticisms stood out to me in memory, her discouragement did not. I think its a mix of things? I think I want to avoid being less biased about things I haven’t read (a recent thing) and I’ve always had a somewhat still positive image of free-market thinkers in my head regardless of Rand’s discouragement. I don’t know why. I think part of me never really took fully into account her warnings against people like that.
Mmm. I don’t know. Moving away from economics, I don’t know what her opinions were on learning general stuff. I think she believed there was a lot of issues in the sciences at her time. I don’t know if she ever communicated anything to the effect that you should not learn from an average science professor.
No. I don’t think Rand said that. Going off your paraphrase, my thoughts on what Rand said were something like, “Friedman is bad because of his influence and significance. However, a lot of college professors are also bad. He is just the most socially significant and is seen as a representative of Capitalism.”
I couldn’t find any writing after a quick search. I did ask Gemini to see if it could find any writing where Miss Rand mentions Friedman. From Gemini:
1. The Ayn Rand Letter (Vol. IV, No. 11 – March 1975)
In an article addressing political commentary in Europe and the UK, Rand reacted to a quote by a British conservative leader who claimed: “You can say our principle is that of Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman… They are leaders in our economic philosophy.”
Rand responded directly:
“I have virtually nothing in common with Mr. Friedman, whom I do not regard as an advocate of capitalism—but I could not resent that kind of confusion at that kind of distance, when much greater confusions exist in our own country…”
2. Private Letters Regarding Roofs or Ceilings? (1946)
One of Rand’s earliest and sharpest reactions to Friedman occurred in 1946, after the Foundation for Economic Education (FEE) published Roofs or Ceilings? The Current Housing Problem, a pamphlet against rent control co-authored by Milton Friedman and George Stigler.
The Core Objection: Rand wrote a fierce letter of complaint to FEE founder Leonard E. Read. She was incensed that Friedman and Stigler defended the free market merely on the grounds of efficiency and distribution (e.g., using terms like “price rationing”) rather than explicitly establishing rent control as an immoral violation of individual property rights .
She viewed the pamphlet’s utilitarian concessions and agnostic stance on equality as a betrayal of principle, reportedly calling it “the most dreadful thing ever put out by a conservative organization” and deriding the authors’ compromise s.
3. Public Lectures & Ford Hall Forum Q&As
In various oral Q&A sessions (later collected in works like Ayn Rand Answers and discussed across Objectivist lectures), Rand addressed Friedman and the Chicago Scho ol:
Amoralism in Economics: Rand took issue with Friedman’s view of economics as a strictly positive, value-free science. She maintained that separating economics from moral philosophy (rational egoism and individual rights) disarms the defense of the free mar ket.
Compromise and Welfare Proposals: Rand strongly opposed policy mechanisms popularized by Friedman that sought market-like efficiencies within a state-funded framework, such as school vouchers and the negative income tax. To Rand, funding private choices with tax money was a compromise with statism and an infringement on property rights, which she argued would ultimately subject private institutions to government con trol.
I tried checking in Capitalism if she makes any mention of him and didn’t find anything.
So Gemini says that Rand believed she had nothing in common with Friedman. She thoughts Friedmans utilitarianism and amoralism about Capitalism was bad.
Not sure what you mean, but if you want to read a variety of points of view, including ones that may be wrong/bad, that’s fine. The main thing was that you said kinda like “I liked it because Rand said capitalism is good” but it is not what Rand considers good capitalism literature.