Elliot's Microblogging

I’m over half way through reading Careless People: A Cautionary Tale of Power, Greed, and Lost Idealism by Sarah Wynn-Williams. I think the book is really important if it’s broadly true.

It’s by a former Facebook executive (who worked on international policy and dealt with foreign governments) who was a diplomat before that and worked at the UN. She’s from New Zealand. She talks about what the world’s elites are like. She presents them as careless people and social climbers. She presents social hierarchies as being a huge deal to a lot of the worlds’ rich and powerful people (including heads of state). She presents a lot of elites as focused on image and appearances and as being petty and superficial. She talks about how private deals are made between businesses and politicians. She talks about corruption. She also talks about sexual harassment and disregard for the physical safety and health of employees at Facebook.

I find the book plausible, not full of internal contradictions, but it fits some of my preexisting beliefs or biases.

Facebook sued and says the book is false and defamatory.

If anyone does research and has useful information about whether the claims in this book are actually true or not, I’d be very interested.

From Careless People:

I think many of the employees are fine with that. Most of the company is made up of white and Asian men who don’t seem to have a problem with how things have been going. The entitlement in the Facebook offices flows as freely as the prosecco from the Prosecco Tap that’s installed in one of the Facebook office kitchens. When there are complaints of gentrification around Facebook’s Menlo Park campus, driving up rents and forcing longtime residents out, they post things that could have been lifted from the pages of Atlas Shrugged, like, “I take exception to think that I am part of the problem, I won’t be villainized for my own successes in life.” And, “These people just want our gobs of money.”

Instead of accusing them of being similar to AS, I think it’d be more reasonable and effective to accuse them of being bad according to AS (as well as according to anything left of center). In some sense, they’re bad according to both sides. They’re far right on capitalism, sort of, but also bad according to AS. What they’re doing is awful according to anything socialist or mixed/moderate but also awful according to the pure capitalists like Rand or Mises. I think it’d be better to say something more like that. (Though also this paragraph jumps from the issues the book mostly talks about, which I had in mind, to specifically the issue of raising housing prices in the area, which may not have been mentioned at all previously, and which is actually a complex issue. I’m speaking more generally based on the overall themes of the book, not trying to tackle the details of this one issue that got brought up very briefly, which I think is problematic to bring up an issue with some nuance like it’s a really simple matter of good guys and villains. It’s fine to paint the Facebook executives as villains in general based on many chapters of reasoning, not based on a few sentences, but this kind of side point should be milder because it’s explained and argued way less.)

I suspect the author simply doesn’t know that their behavior wildly contradicts AS. That Facebook executives are villains according to both Marx and Rand.

If the author hasn’t read AS, and doesn’t know enough about it to recognize how different her enemies are from AS heroes, then she shouldn’t bring up AS in a book. Ignorance of AS is fine, but in that scenario, don’t bring up AS in writing in your book!

For housing specifically, I imagine there are anti-capitalist things being done by FB people, but also there are a lot of government restrictions on developing housing so if these people were actually libertarian minded they would say a standard talking point like “It’s not my fault that housing prices are too high; it’s the government’s fault.” But she doesn’t report them saying that, either because they don’t say it or she (the book author) doesn’t recognize why such statements would be important and relevant to her point.

Just denying being part of the problem of high housing prices when you demanded housing and bid a lot of dollars for it is absurd. Even if you aren’t a villain in the story, you’re obviously involved. Similarly, a more free market take than accusing people of greed would be to say they ought to move to lower cost of living areas, and that people being displaced and having to move is a normal part of a progressive (rather than static) economy and that people having to move to different locations is the same as blacksmiths having to change jobs. When society is progressing and changing then people will have to make changes to keep fitting in well; if they change nothing they can get out of sync. Such comments would be more reasonable and open to debate; just accusing people of wanting money doesn’t sound very Objectivist. She might actually be right that some of these people are AS readers and fans, but I think a lot of them have little involvement in Objectivism and don’t know much about it, and even if they did have involvement in Objectivist groups today and actually study it some, one could still point out how their positions do not match Rand’s, and that seems more effective than just saying Objectivism is bad, but that gets back into the author ought to either know something about Rand or not bring Rand up.

But maybe my concept of what’s effective or good to write in books is too related to persuading intelligent people and unintelligent attacks are effective. But basically the rest of the book seemed fine to me, and more intelligent, reasonable and logical, so I read this part as worse, as not fitting in with the quality of the rest of the book. It’s not like the rest of the book is aimed at inflaming the emotions of idiots; it reads as not some fancy philosophy book but also certainly not low brow; it reads as written by and aimed at intelligent, educated people.

The main thing I took away from that comment was that the author hates Ayn Rand, and that reasonable people think Rand’s ideas are horrible and that there isn’t much more to know about them. Like it seemed more like a tribalist signal. I’ve seen other stuff where Ayn Rand is treated similarly.

I think if she accused them of not being like AS heroes she would be sending the opposite signal: that Ayn Rand is good and her ideas are valuable.

I agree it would be more reasonable for her to accuse them of being bad according to AS. What did you mean that you think it would be more effective? Effective for what?

I don’t think “They are in the other tribe” is a good main point to make and I don’t think most of the book was like that. I think “They fail by the standards of their own tribe” or “They don’t have and follow a principled, logical position” are better types of point to make.

I don’t think so either, and I’m missing the context of the rest of the book so might be right that that’s not the main point. People get especially weird when it comes to Rand though.

Yeah I didn’t consider that she knew the people she was talking about actually were fans of Rand. I just thought she might be pointing out that things being said were like things out of AS, like it was a ominous coincidence? But I think there are Rand fans throughout that industry. I agree that pointing out that someone who you know is a fan of Rand fails to meet Rand’s standards would be a good point.

I think most intelligent people who are anti-Objectivist wouldn’t react to this. Maybe I have too low standards for what an intelligent person would be though? How many such intelligent people do you think exists (tbh I can’t really think of a number myself)? They seem rare to me. I hope there are more than I imagine.

I assume you react the same way to stuff like this but fits with your beliefs, for example something that is anti-Kant?

Educated people being bad at reading fits my experience in philosophical discussions.

@lmd and @Eternity can use this as an assignment if they want: read the first paragraph of Bleak House and try to figure out what it means line by line before watching the video (which discusses around the first half of first paragraph). You’re allowed to look stuff up.

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/1023/pg1023.txt

London. Michaelmas term lately over, and the Lord Chancellor sitting in Lincoln’s Inn Hall. Implacable November weather. As much mud in the streets as if the waters had but newly retired from the face of the earth, and it would not be wonderful to meet a Megalosaurus, forty feet long or so, waddling like an elephantine lizard up Holborn Hill. Smoke lowering down from chimney-pots, making a soft black drizzle, with flakes of soot in it as big as full-grown snowflakes—gone into mourning, one might imagine, for the death of the sun. Dogs, undistinguishable in mire. Horses, scarcely better; splashed to their very blinkers. Foot passengers, jostling one another’s umbrellas in a general infection of ill temper, and losing their foot-hold at street-corners, where tens of thousands of other foot passengers have been slipping and sliding since the day broke (if this day ever broke), adding new deposits to the crust upon crust of mud, sticking at those points tenaciously to the pavement, and accumulating at compound interest.

In the video, the subjects responses about what they think is happening in that paragraph are strange. Its strange to guess that such a scene is happening rather than just admit you aren’t quite sure what is happening.

It’s strange to me to just try and say something and appear like you were following when the facilitator surely does know what a correct interpretation is. It’s like the subject is trying to convince the facilitator that they have been paying attention or that they know what they’re reading though? Maybe the subject was lying to themself that they were knew what they were reading? The subject could actually have believed that what they said they read was what was written, but it didn’t seem like it to me. It seemed like they were trying to come up with some answer that wasn’t “I’m not really sure”. The way they answer the facilitator seems like they were trying to piece together a scene from fragmented ideas of what they just read in real time. It seems that they preferred to say something they knew was wrong than to admit they maybe didn’t know?

Maybe it’s because in school tests it’s better to just guess something rather than admit you don’t know.