Law

Idk and yes. In the past I’ve done attempts at researching stuff in depth, One notable examples come to mind in high school where I attempted to read the entire U.S. constitution (that I did do) and research each amendment and the articles and try to really understand the whole thing. It was very hard for high school. I failed at it. I can probably try and find some other stuff but besides going down a random rabbit hole I come across I haven’t done anything close to serious legal research. I think an issue there is overreaching. My projects are usually way to big for me to handle. I never thought of coming up with smaller things to research about.

I have with books, yes. No, not just.

Around high school (~5ish years ago) I read a lot of books like Three Felonies A Day and The Dirty Dozen (book) - Wikipedia.

I would say that interest was kept constant for about a year and then mid-pandemic I stopped following stuff. I pick up interests very easily and kept changing stuff. I think I’m more or less settled on law and philosophy because those are the two interests I keep coming back to and I feel the least friction with.

I think I can do both but

Law I want to do, but coding I’m less interested in. I don’t feel like I’ve been forcing myself to do it but I did pick it up due to you giving me the option. If you recommend the topics in the last 5 years I’m glad to focus on that if you think there good. I do want to finish my current coding assignment before moving on.

What are the the topics you covered in the last 5 years?

Does going in-depth into Roe v. Wade sound fine for now? If so how do you want me to start. Hmm. I guess my goal is going in-depth into the reasoning behind their decisions.

Basically anything on the CF website.

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Roe vs. Wade might be kind of abstract, not about evidence and facts, so that might make it hard to work on. But idk much about it so idk.

Ok. I took that as to go ahead and try at least. So I went through the Wikipedia article. All quotes are from there unless I note otherwise.

The parties appealed this ruling to the Supreme Court. In January 1973, the Supreme Court issued a 7–2 decision in McCorvey’s favor holding that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides a fundamental “right to privacy”, which protects a pregnant woman’s right to an abortion.

Hmm. Maybe this is why many conservatives I’ve heard over the years claim that abortion is a made up constitutional right. The right to abortion is not found written anywhere in the constitution (true), so they claim that this analysis is bad/it is made up because the Due Process Clause doesn’t say that.

I know that an issue in Constitutional law is reading it, so the claim that it is a made up law is, I think, unfair. I know the commerce clause says:

The Commerce Clause refers to Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 of the U.S. Constitution , which gives Congress the power “to regulate commerce with foreign nations, among states, and with the Indian tribes.”

and that it is a big reason as to how the federal government/congress got so much power. However, that only came about due to interpretation/reading by judges. While certain lawyers may disagree with how it get interpreted and its current scope, I don’t hear language as strong as “its made up”. Or maybe I missed it. Idk

Then again the commerce clause does say “regulate commerce” and then that regulation power got very far. That is different from interpreting the constitution says something about abortion when its not written anywhere.

However, it also held that the right to abortion is not absolute and must be balanced against the government’s interest in protecting both women’s health and prenatal life.

Hmm. Idk if they had any strong legal reasons for this. I feel like it was probably more so done because of their personal feelings of abortion. I do kinda agree with the sentiment of the law beinf made up here. It went from interpreting a part of the constitution as saying you have the right to abortion to then giving specific details about abortion. I don’t know how the right to privacy interprets into don’t abort in the last trimester.

It resolved these competing interests by announcing a pregnancy trimester timetable to govern all abortion regulations in the United States.

So this was the legal origin of the trimester thing? I heard there’s some issues with the trimester view. I forgot what.

The Supreme Court’s decision in Roe was among the most controversial in U.S. history.[8][9] Roe was criticized by many in the legal community,[9][10][11] including some who thought that Roe reached the correct result but went about it the wrong way,[12][13][14]

Interesting. So it wasn’t just a sentiment of Rands and other people at the time who agreed with abortion had issues with it.

Why did you pick Wikipedia? What do you plan to do next?

To just get a general overview of the case. I could probably find more strictly legalish sources. I just chose Wikipedia out of habit.

Oh yeah I didn’t make it clear that I intended to go over a bit more on the wiki. I just got tired and posted what I had done and didn’t share I intended to do more.

Go over the Supreme Court decision part in the wiki and just write down any big reasoning points they had for their decision and my thoughts with it. After that maybe look at some other resources.

I could read the original opinion Roe v. Wade | 410 U.S. 113 (1973) | Justia U.S. Supreme Court Center. I’m just avoiding it out of a habit I got from school I think. English teachers always told me to read books or you won’t pass. That’s false because they all care about the same big points. In my experience people tend to do better with just using a tool that just give the main points. You can end up missing what is considered important to the teacher (or just in general) by reading it by yourself.

It depends on your goals. Looking at stuff yourself and figuring out the main points as well as or better than the people who do tools/summaries is a potential goal. That enables helps enable innovation and potentially disagreeing with the experts. An alternative goal would be to quickly and easily get a mainstream opinion about a topic.

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That’s true. That’s a goal I’m interested in. I think in this case my goal was trying to understand the experts so I just went with what they said.

By myself? Oh yeah that’d be cool.

So I don’t know if a project would be better for this or just posting here is fine.

Over the past few days I’ve been using a legal study aid website to just get familiar with basic aspects of the law. I waited to share because I wanted to get into a routine and make sure I’m doing things (I realized that just telling people online I’m going to do it is insufficient).

I figured I’d share the notes I took for the day here. I’ve been using Quimbee. They also have quizzes after every lesson. I’ll probably share some questions I found hard here.


Here’s some stuff from today:

Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress
  • Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress

    • defendant engages in extreme enough conduct that intends to, or by recklessness does, create emotional distress in the plaintiff

      • the full statement is extreme and outrageous conduct. what is extreme and outrageous?

        • conduct that goes past all bounds of decency in a civilized society

        • overall fairly vague. its something worse than regular bad behavior. we expect people (or should) to get mad to get angry to be regularly gross. spitting is normal, puking is normal, doing something super gross with spit and puke may count

    • the defendant must actually and proximately cause plaintiffs emotional distress

    • no eggshell in emotional cases except/potentially for cases where the defendant knew the plaintiff was particularly emotionally sensitive and took advantage of that

    • An example of something extreme and outrageous:

      • Saying racial slurs from positions of power. Slurs are within the norm (ig), except parts are probably covered under bs hate speech laws. However, slurs said from a position of power over someone is seen as extreme and outrageous. Such as a doctor to a patient or a teacher to a student.
    • Extreme and outrageous conduct is more likely to be found in two types of relationship:

      • power over somebody

      • confidence between two people

        • iied is found in cases of prolonged abuse. one statement of sexual harassment is not sufficient for iied. repeated comments is.
    • the above talks about what conduct is required, we will now move on to what harm the plaintiff must suffer

    • Emotions can have physical manifestations such as heart palpitations, throwing up, crying, etc. While not necessarily required, courts look for these as it helps to establish IIED. It can help show the emotional duress is abnormal

    • As mentioned above: physical manifestation, or any kind of outward signs of emotion, are not required. In certain cases, the conduct could be so outrageous and extreme that its taken at nearly “face-value” that

    • What happens when you direct your IIED actions at one person but someone else is instead inflected?

      • You can be a plaintiff if its an immediate family member that the action was directed towards

      • If not family, actual bodily harm must be done to you (as the third party) to be a plaintiff

    • IIED is typically a last resort tort.

Defenses to Intentional Torts
  • Defenses to Intentional Torts

    • prima facie - based on the first impression; accepted as correct until proved otherwise. (google)

    • There are defenses to prima facie cases. Meaning that, on the surface, if your case looks like an open and shut tort case, there are still defenses to the things you did.

    • Affirmative Defenses: I did it but here’s why thats fine

      • Self-Defense

      • Necessity

        • is a defense to

          • trespass to chattel

          • trespass

          • conversion of chattel

        • You did what you did because it was necessary. You did it to avoid something worse.

        • can be broken down into public and private necessity

          • public

            • defense to the above three

            • defense to only necessary damages done to achieve the public good, not a defense against unnecessary damages

              • you know theres a bomb in a building and do a bunch of stuff to the building to remove and defuse it. great. there was no good reason for you steal someones car. your car was right there, in perfect good order, and was even faster
          • private

            • trespass to land

              • partial defense, i dont fully understand the damages and what not here, but essentially: you can go on someones land to avoid, lets say, a bull chasing you. but any damage you do in that process you are still liable for. they just cannot hold you liable for the simple fact of going on their property. so it is a defense against simply going on someones property

              • plaintiff cannot expel defendant if there is necessity

              • Notes from a question explanation:

                • Under the doctrine of private necessity, a person is privileged to interfere with another person’s property rights, without consent, if he reasonably believed that such interference was necessary to avoid serious injury to himself or his property, which injury would be substantially greater than the interference with the owner’s rights.
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Today I took a MCQ test on Intentional Torts. That covers:

  • Assault and Battery
  • False Imprisonment
  • Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress
  • Defenses to Intentional Torts
  • Trespass to Land, Trespass to Chattel, and Conversion of Chattel

I got 15/21 right.

Some questions I either found hard, but got right, or just got wrong:

Question 6: Got this wrong

An employee came to work wearing snow boots because a snowstorm was forecast to begin that afternoon. In the office, the employee changed into four-inch high-heeled shoes. The employee’s coworker was unaware of the forecast. The coworker came to work wearing high heels and without any snow boots. Later that day, the snowstorm began as predicted. When the coworker was ready to leave work, she snuck into the employee’s office and stole the employee’s boots. The employee worked late that night, and it was only when she was ready to leave that she discovered that her boots were missing. By then, the snow was so deep and the ground was so slippery that it would have been dangerous, if not impossible, to walk to the train station in high heels. Further, due to the snowstorm, there were no taxis or other ride options available. As a result, the employee had to spend the entire night in the office. Days later, the employee caught the coworker returning the boots to the employee’s office. The employee sued the coworker for the tort of false imprisonment. The coworker admitted that she had committed the tort of trespass to chattels when she stole the employee’s boots. However, the coworker argued that she could not be found liable for the tort of false imprisonment because she had never intended to confine the employee to the office building and had not even known that stealing the boots would cause that confinement.

Is it possible for the employee to prove all the elements of a false-imprisonment claim?

Answers and Explanations

Answers:

So false imprisonment, as I was doing this, meant intending to do something to cause false imprisonment. The lectures gave an example: you meet a girl at a resort, go to your hotel room, as your showering she takes your car keys and hides your pants, and then leaves. The false imprisonment comes from hiding your pants because people don’t want to go out sem-naked in a towel. Thats the false imprisonment.

Because this scenario kind of felt like that I assumed there was no intent element needed. To me this felt like false imprisonment, but I wasn’t fitting my understanding of intent about it. So I just kinda went with no intent.

Oh this is good. The videos didn’t cover this well (I wonder if coverage gaps are there because they expect you to learn stuff in law school classes?), from the answer explanation:

Answer option B is correct. The tort of false imprisonment requires: an act that is intended to, and that does in fact, cause the victim to be confined nonconsensually within a fixed set of boundaries of the actor’s choosing for any appreciable length of time. Further, the victim must either be aware of the confinement or be harmed by it, and the actor must confine the victim without any lawful authority to do so. Under the doctrine of transferred intent, if an actor acted with the intent to cause any one of five intentional torts (battery, assault, false imprisonment, trespass to land, or trespass to chattels), but the action results in the occurrence of another one of those torts, then the actor’s intent may be deemed to have transferred from the target tort to the actual tort.

Question 8: Got this wrong

A man had a vicious argument with his roommate about paying the next month’s rent. During this argument, the man threatened to kill the roommate if the roommate didn’t pay his share the next month. The roommate was terrified by this threat. Accordingly, when the man turned his back, the roommate picked up a statue, which was a valuable antique that belonged to the man. To protect himself, the roommate then attempted to hit the man on the head with the statue. As the roommate swung the statue at the man’s head, the statue fell apart. The man turned around and realized that the roommate had tried to attack him and that his statue was destroyed. The man sued the roommate for both assault and conversion.

What is the likely outcome of this suit?

Answers and Explanations

Ok. Without looking at the explanation just yet, I think I got this wrong due to sloppy reading. The man filed for assault and conversion charges. Yeah, no. Assault, more or less, is when you think battery will happen to you. The man didn’t think battery was going to happen to him, it just did. He has a battery charge, not an assault charge. I think I took assault as battery when I first read this.

So I was kinda right, from the explanation:

For the assault claim, one of the elements is that the victim was subjectively aware of the actor’s threatening, physical act. The man will not be able to prove this element because, at the time the roommate swung the statue at his head, the man’s back was turned. Therefore, the man was not subjectively aware of the threat that the roommate posed to him. Even if the man was startled or upset after discovering that the roommate had tried to hit him, by that point, the statue had already fallen apart and was no longer a threat. Because the man was not aware of any imminent threat as it was happening, he cannot prove the elements needed to establish an assault claim.

What an odd hypothetical. The statue just fell apart? I guess that’s possible. In my head I’m imagining fell apart as disintegrated which makes no sense.

Question 11: Got this right, but was confused about the scenario/hypothetical.

A private security guard at an art museum noticed that a patron had drifted too close to a sculpture. Approaching the patron from behind, the security guard grabbed the patron by the back of the arm and pulled her away from the sculpture. The patron drew her arm back out of the guard’s grip and shouted, “Don’t touch me!”

For which of the following intentional torts is the guard most likely to be held liable?

Answers and Explanations

This one I got right. It was more so why this is a valid hypothetical that confused me. I just kinda assumed a security guard had a right to grab patron. Maybe its because the patron drifted too close to a sculpture, but wasn’t touching it? Maybe if they were touching it the procedure should’ve been to talk to them before escalating to any kind of physical tough? Idk. The answer explanation doesn’t cover anything about that.

Question 13: Got this wrong.

A man’s neighbor loaned the man a pickup truck so that the man could deliver a sofa to his daughter. While en route to his daughter’s home, the man negligently ran a red light, causing an accident that totaled the pickup truck. The neighbor sued the man for conversion.

Is the neighbor likely to prevail in this action?

Answers and Explanations

So the man, borrowing his neighbors truck, got into an accident, which was his fault, with the neighbors truck.

I said Yes its conversion because he “did” something that change the car very significantly and it wasn’t his car.

The answer was No, because he was a rightful possessor. I do remember an element of conversion being something like you don’t have permission to use it. I also remember something like you have permission to do X, but not Y. This seems like a case of X, but not Y (though my answer doesn’t cover that). He was allowed to use it for the sofa, not to crash it.

Answer option A is correct. A person may be found liable for conversion of chattels when he or she (1) intentionally exercises dominion or control over the personal property of another, and (2) this dominion or control so seriously interferes with the right of the true owner or rightful possessor to control the property that the person may justly be required to pay the other the full value of the property. A defendant cannot be liable for conversion where the defendant himself had rightful possession of the chattel. Here, the neighbor loaned the pickup truck to the man, so the man was the rightful possessor of the truck as long as he was acting within the scope of the neighbor’s grant of permission, which he was at the time of the accident. The rightful possessor cannot interfere with his own rights by exercising dominion and control over the chattel. Answer option B is incorrect because the intent element of the tort of conversion does not require that the defendant intend any particular harm to the plaintiff. Answer options C and D are incorrect because, regardless of the circumstances under which the truck was totaled, the man was the rightful possessor of the truck at the time of the accident. Note that the neighbor may have a successful cause of action against the man for negligence but may not prevail on a conversion claim.

Oh ok. I thought I remember something about accidents not counting as something you’re permitted to do. Oh, from my notes on Conversion of Chattel:

  • Take a car crash:

    • If the borrower had permission to borrow the car then the crash (that was his fault in this context) is not conversion of chattel. Though damages from negligence may be awarded.

    • If the car was stolen and then crashed, then a conversion of chattel does apply (among other crimes).

Question 15: Got this wrong.

A criminal brutally attacked and beat a man, inflicting severe injuries. The beating was captured on security footage. The next day, the man’s girlfriend, who was not present when the man was attacked, viewed the security footage. The girlfriend experienced severe emotional distress resulting in bodily harm due to watching the video.

If the girlfriend sues the criminal for intentional infliction of emotional distress, is she likely to succeed?

Answers and Explanations

So I already looked at the explanation before writing why I think I got this wrong, but my initial thoughts were an issue of order. In my head I got the order wrong and this was a “choose the best answer” type of question. I assumed that B was right because you need to be present at the attack and then we need to take into considerations such as whether you’re a family member or not. Explanation:

Answer option B is correct. When a defendant acts directly upon one individual, causing emotional distress in a second individual, the second individual can only recover if she was present at the scene of the defendant’s commission of the tort against the first individual. Restatement (Second) of Torts § 46 cmt. l (1965) (noting that cases have limited “liability to plaintiffs who were present at the time, as distinguished from those who discover later what has occurred. The limitation may be justified by the practical necessity of drawing the line somewhere.”).

Here, because the man’s girlfriend was not present on the scene when the man was attacked, she will not be able to recover from the criminal for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

Answer option A is incorrect because recovery for intentional infliction of emotional distress is not limited to immediate family members. Non-immediate family members, however, will generally have to show bodily harm resulting from the emotional distress. Immediate family members will not have to prove bodily harm when the defendant knew of their presence at the scene and their relationship with the primary victim.

Question 18: Got this wrong.

A man was paddling a canoe on a lake when the canoe sprung a leak. The man realized that the canoe would soon sink if he did not get it to safety. The man steered the canoe toward the nearest land, a privately owned beach. When the man was in very shallow water near the beach, he got out of the canoe and started dragging it onto the land. A woman exited the house on the land and told the man that he was on her private property and could not take his canoe onto her beach. The man explained to the woman that his canoe had sprung a leak and that he needed to temporarily move it onto the beach to prevent it from sinking. The woman told the man that she did not care and did not give him permission to be on her property. The woman attempted to block the man from entering the beach. The man used reasonable and proportional force to stop the woman from expelling him and his canoe from her property. The man did not cause any actual damage to the woman or the woman’s property by landing his canoe on her beach. The woman later sued the man for trespass to land and for battery.

How will a court likely rule on the man’s liability for each tort?

Answers and Explanations

So I remember there being an exception kind of thing for emergencies. So I knew he could come on the land. I didn’t think that meant that the person couldn’t defend their property, which is what I assumed the women was doing here. Or maybe the women was allowed to defend her property (block him), the man was allowed to use proportional force to stay on the property (given the circumstances), and both just kind of cancel out (I assume the women isn’t held liable for blocking him).

Answer option D is correct. A party who commits trespass to land has a valid defense of private necessity if it is necessary for the defendant to be on the plaintiff’s land in order to prevent serious harm to the defendant himself, or to the defendant’s real or personal property. Restatement (Second) of Torts § 197 (1965). Where the defense of private necessity exists, the defendant has an overriding privilege to be on the property without the plaintiff’s permission. Therefore, the plaintiff has no authority to expel the defendant from the premises.

Here, the man will be able to assert a valid defense of private necessity to the tort of trespass to land. The man’s decision to land his canoe on the woman’s beach was necessary in order to prevent his canoe from sinking. Because the man did no actual damage to the woman’s land, the man will not be liable for trespass to land. Additionally, because the man was privileged to be on the woman’s land due to private necessity, the woman did not have the right to attempt to expel the man or his canoe from her property. By attempting to block the man’s entrance, the woman acted as the initial aggressor, and the man was entitled to use reasonable and proportional force to stop the woman from preventing him from entering her property. Id. at §§ 63, 197 cmt. k. Therefore, the man has acted in self-defense and will not be liable for battery on the woman. Answer options A, B, and C are necessarily incorrect for the reasons stated.

Ok, so the women was not allowed to expel. I wonder whether she can therefore be hold liable for battery from blocking him?

Question 21: Got this wrong.

A woman borrowed jewelry from her neighbor to wear to a fancy party. The neighbor told the woman that the woman had to return the jewelry to the neighbor by 11:00 p.m. that night. The party went later than the woman expected. At 11:15 p.m., the woman was walking home from the party, planning on returning the jewelry to her neighbor. When the woman was only one block away from the neighbor’s house, a mugger attacked her and stole the jewelry. The neighbor later sued the woman for conversion.

Is the court likely to find that the woman committed the tort of conversion?

Answers and Explanations

Ok. So conversion requires illegal possession/use, some kind of really significant change (conversion) that interferes with the right of the true user. So I guess the illegal possession is important here? So if something is stolen from you (the lady having her jewelry past the time can be considered stealing ig) and then the thief gets the item stolen, then the first thief is liable for conversion? Why? Lets see: because if not for their actions the conversion would have not happened? Or maybe, the view is they played a part in the conversion? How so? Her illegal holding of it (which probably would have just been trespass) turned into a conversion because now the true owners rights are being interfered with. Explanation:

Answer option B is correct. A defendant commits the tort of conversion when she intentionally exercises near-total, owner-type dominion over personal property, coupled with a resulting serious interference with the rights of the true owner or other rightful possessor. Restatement (Second) of Torts § 222A (1965). A party commits conversion if the owner’s property is lost, destroyed, or otherwise seriously interfered with at a time when the defendant did not have the right to lawfully possess it.

Here, the woman was in lawful possession of the neighbor’s jewelry until 11:00 p.m. that night. After that time, she was no longer in lawful possession and was therefore liable for conversion for the loss or destruction of the jewelry, even without any fault on her own behalf. Therefore, when the woman was mugged, a conversion of the neighbor’s jewelry occurred, even though the loss was entirely due to the fault of a third party.

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This is weird and wrong I think. But I agree that the coworker should be judged for causing the false imprisonment. She could have been stupid enough to not realize the employee would be imprisoned, but being willing to do an unlawful act and being stupid leading to further unintended consequences can be dangerous. It’s not as bad as intentionally causing false imprisonment, but worse than merely stealing. That still doesn’t mean she actually intended false imprisonment. The result doesn’t change what she intended.

It sounds reasonable to me that if you intended to do something bad, and got a bad result, you’re still guilty even if it wasn’t the same bad result that you intended. It wasn’t just an innocent accident.

It’s like telling a judge “No no, I didn’t meant to shoot him in the arm. I’m innocent! I was aiming at his heart. I missed. Shooting his arm was an accident.”

Why? The patron just wandered around. There was no urgent emergency. If that would be an urgent emergency, then the sculpture needs to be roped off at a larger distance to keep patrons further back, or a plastic case, or something (telling guards to grab patrons, rather than setting up the exhibit better, isn’t OK).

Guards should communicate not just start grabbing people by surprise unless the person is behaving quite unreasonably.

You can grab patrons if they’re going past roped off areas, breaking open cases, grabbing art, etc. But even if cases where it looks really intentional like that, yelling “stop” first and seeing if they immediately stop or not is often a good idea before grabbing. Like how police will commonly yell “stop police” or “freeze, hands up” or something, not just try to grab people by surprise. And if you’re not the police, you have less right to grab anyone than the police do.

huh i didn’t think the rightful scope of action which he was given permission to do included driving negligently. what if he raced the car without permission, would that be conversion? so i guess the truck owner has to sue for negligence (or something else?) not conversion.

This makes sense to me. The actual answer seems weird and harsh to me.

I’ve been interested in ignorance and innocence for a long time. Rand said Hank was innocent because he always acted morally according to his best knowledge but was wrong about altruism. I agree. But she wouldn’t excuse an idealist communist who helped the Bolsheviks get in power. Doesn’t matter if he really truly thought communism was moral and that it was moral to force it upon others. I agree. So you can be responsible for your ignorance. For example the coworker should’ve known the employee would probably end up in the same situation she was in, which was not being able to get home.

Very slight Atlas Shrugged spoiler:
I don’t think the difference is just about hurting yourself vs. hurting others. I think there are things you ought to know and it’s about effort and honesty. Hank had never before heard what Fransisco told him. He would have to create breakthrough philosophical knowledge that contradicts a 2000 years old consensus across pretty much the whole world. If the communist had engaged in honest debate and had proper standards for his knowledge before he acted on his revolutionary ideas which are forced upon others and he still believed he was correct, maybe we can excuse him morally, maybe I’m not sure. But I don’t think he would’ve stayed a communist if he did those things honestly.

So Paths Forward would help you in being moral! I don’t think you would need PF for every choice you ever made but when you’re going to be a revolutionary you’re morally obliged to have paths forward.

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Just as guilty as if you had intended the result?

I think what I arrived at here is that guiltiness is based off a mix of intent, outcome and reasonableness of your ignorance and knowledge. Innocent intent and a reasonable state of knowledge could completely wipe away your guilt. But maybe bad enough outcome like setting off a nuclear bomb can’t be excused?

At first I thought my imagined nuclear bomb situation couldn’t happen, but then I remembered nuclear bombs have actually been detonated due to accidents and others have been close.

It depends.

I’ll respond to some other stuff later (going to go exercise), but I read through this and wanted to clear a possible misunderstanding. Starting from Gemini:

No, you are not found “guilty” in a civil case; instead, you are found to be “liable” or “not liable” for causing harm to another party. In civil cases, the standard of proof is lower, requiring only a “preponderance of the evidence” (more likely than not) to establish liability, unlike the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard in criminal cases, which can lead to a verdict of “guilty”.

So all the above examples are related to tort law (read civil law). Not criminal law. We are not talking about convictions. We are talking about liability or who’s responsible. @ActiveMind shared above how:

I agree. I don’t know if there is such a thing as criminal false imprisonment and stuff, but lets change the example. For murder (which is only covered under criminal law I think) they would care about such differing intents. Going off of memory:

1st degree murder - you intended to kill them with a plan and stuff

2nd degree murder - killing them in the heat of moment kind of thing

3rd degree murder - reckless killing (drunk driving)

In a civil (tort) context, we just care about:

what happened? did this happen because of someone’s intended actions (so acts of god like weather don’t count)? we’re not too concerned if what they intended do was a bad thing. your just suing here for money damages (typically) not trying to get someone sent to jail.

a different example, afaik criminal acts require a “mens rea”. an intent to do something bad. So lets look at taking a jacket. There are two identical jackets at a party (yours and a friend). You accidently take your friends thinking its yours. Under tort you can be held liable under trespass to chattel (personal property). You took their property (though good luck convincing any court of meaningful damages out of that) and that’s all that matters for tort. You intended to take it. In a criminal case, the government would have to prove you intended to steal the jacket to convict you of theft.

So they care less about intent because paying for money damages isn’t considered as serious as being sent to jail? What about your state of knowledge? Can you be liable for things you couldn’t be reasonably expected to know?

I don’t know anything about law but justice is interesting. Maybe you’ll find it interesting or good practice to answer noob questions? I could research more myself too.

~I would. Also Im pretty much a noob too. Most of my knowledge cames from just law media like podcasts and stuff. The course I’m working on above is based on what American law students take in their first year.

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