Small Talk, Low Talk and Social Status

[Elliot]

    <p>I watched a <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@alimcforever/video/7509813063915228438">TikTok video</a> by alimcforever that particularly impressed me. It's also on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pUhyTBUopM">YouTube</a>. It only has 8129 likes on TikTok and 164 likes on YouTube, which is an example of how merit doesn't reliably rise to the top. The content of the video actually helps with understanding what prevents merit from rising to the top.</p>

The video divides the concept of small talk into two separate concepts, small talk and low talk. In this new terminology, small talk is innocuous, harmless, low pressure, low stakes, natural, organic, opt-in, and not something people typically hate. When people say "I hate small talk" they mostly actually hate low talk. Small talk can build comfort, warmth and rapport.

Low talk is socially obligatory conversation disguised as politeness. It can transmit expectations, social cues, microcorrections and microagressions. It can subtly ask for information about people's lives which can be checked for conformity. Issues that come up include what you do on the weekend, where you live, your appearance and clothes, appearing tired, low energy or unfriendly, what TV you watch or what music you like. These allow for social surveillance and subtle pressure towards conformity without overt confrontation. Low talk comes up frequently in workplaces, including immediately before and after meetings when it can be hard for people to avoid it. Anything that nudges people to do performative responses is problematic.

The examples of small talk and low talk in the video are good, and better than I can give, and the video has more explanation I haven't covered, so watch the video. I'll quote examples which may serve as reminders if reviewing this in the future, but I think they're more understandable in the context of the video:

Small talk:

[I saw a nice dog]

[I tried a weird sandwich]

[I] saw a fox today

Low talk:

you've got your hair different today

you're very quiet today

that's not like you

I suppose you don't do dairy anymore do you?

does anybody have any good gossip?

British low talk class sorting:

where did you find that jacket?

do you live around here?

I thought this low talk concept was important and useful, and helped me understand some common conversational patterns better. I really appreciate insightful commentary on subtle conformity enforcement, social status hierarchy behaviors, and the hidden meanings behind social interactions. I haven't found a lot of high quality analysis (in my opinion) on these topics even though they affect people's daily lives.

The video doesn't discuss boring, repetitive talk like "It's sure rainy today." Ten different people can talk to you about the weather on one day, and also the same comments can repeat on every day with similar weather. People in some jobs keep hearing repetitive jokes from many different customers. This can cause performative responses and feel obligatory. It can get into some problematic social dynamics, e.g. you could potentially be identified as a non-conformist if you say you like the rain, though I think liking or disliking the rain are often both acceptable. Your answer could be judged as low energy and bored sounding or warm and friendly. Silence could be taken negatively. I don't know how alimcforever would analyze this: I see some of the low talk issues but it also seems less bad than the examples she gave.

In the TikTok comments, someone said:

this is FASCINATING! i'd love to write about this- do you have any other resources? (by yourself, or recommendations? i will cite you of course!)

alimcforever responded:

I didn't get this from a paper. I got it from a decade of sitting in Teams calls trying not to scream. I just made up the term 'low talk' today to describe my the difference but go hard and steal it for your research if you want. A book I'd recommend is David Graeber - Bullshit Jobs

I'd previously seen alimcforever doing leftwing history explainer videos which contradict various mainstream narratives. I found them interesting and important if true, but in general I don't know who is correct about which historical facts. I don't strongly trust or distrust mainstream history sources and I believe a lot of research is needed to reach a conclusion on each issue, especially when the issues are politicized. That research is generally too much work and not a top priority for me. If anyone wants to research some of her history claims and share their results on my forum, I'd be interested.

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This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://curi.us/2595-small-talk-low-talk-and-social-status

[Neo]

I watched the video. The example she gave about being 5 minutes early for a Teams meeting and someone popping in, telling everyone in the room to one by one talk about their weekend, resonated with me. It’s so cringe. Normally the person doing those low talk gimmicks are in a higher position in the company. So you feel extra pressure to play along.

I have a unique perspective on social stuff because I grew up extroverted. Had a lot of friends, played sports, etc. then started to appreciate introversion later in life. Her video gives some good generalizations but a lot of social stuff is context specific. If you have a small team of yapper sales people on the call who know each other, going around the room and talking about their weekend won’t be a big deal. They may see it as an opportunity to be playful.

If you’re playing certain team sports, even the more shy guys on the team get some energy from huddles where you jump around and pump yourselves up. And that can be seen as socially obligatory in those cases. There’s knowledge in some of these traditions.

For work environments, I think a lot of ideas about teams, and tribes are present. Managers think if it’s too quiet or low energy, it’s a problem. Maybe people are unhappy? Maybe they need good leadership and you’re not providing it. Maybe the quiet employee is just shy and feels left out? But, alimcforever shows some people just want to be left alone and do their job, and it will prob benefit the company more to leave them be.

[Neo]

Oh and sometimes small talk gets weird too. Like if you have an especially chatty co-worker you might feel obligated to listen when they talk about their dog for ten minutes. When you really want them to leave you alone. So, in that context, avoiding that person in the mornings may be the best move.

[Elliot]

@Neo

If you’re playing certain team sports, even the more shy guys on the team get some energy from huddles where you jump around and pump yourselves up. And that can be seen as socially obligatory in those cases. There’s knowledge in some of these traditions.

How do you know the shy guys gain energy from huddles? Maybe some of them are masking.

[Neo]

Just guessing based off body language, more oomph in their voice, more aggression on the court afterwards. They could be really good at masking though. Or team sports might filter out super introverts (assuming there’s a spectrum).

A lot of companies aren’t optimized for introverts. Besides the low talk, alimcforever probably doesn’t like team meetings in general (I think most people hate meetings but that’s a separate topic). DHH, the Ruby on Rails creator, talks about how much meetings suck. He structured his companies in a way that’s better for introverts, partly because I don’t think he likes the social BS either.

Speaking of social being context specific, I don’t know much about small talk in the UK. I’ve heard there’s a lot of class based status stuff that still lingers. I don’t think that is quite the same as what we deal with in the US.

[Neo]

I think if people try out certain things similar to huddles with an open mind though, almost everyone is going to get an energetic effect from it. Like if a super introvert were to be asked to join in on a Haka, and came at it with the mindset of curiosity like “sure, I’ll try it” I’d bet they’d feel more energy afterwards. It might be the mix of the physicality of it and the harmony of it. It’s like taking certain drugs are going to have a similar affect on most people, regardless of how social they are?