Analyzing Relationship Drama Reddit Story

AITAH [Am I The Asshole] for letting my chronically late wife miss an event she was looking forward to by not rushing her, because I wanted her to face consequences?

In this subreddit, the standard judgments are:

NTA = not the asshole (the poster is in the right)
YTA = you’re the asshole (poster is wrong)
ESH = everyone sucks here
NAH = no assholes here

A friend sent me this link. I’ve included my response blurred below. I suggest writing down your own opinion before reading mine or the reddit replies. Then read reddit replies and write down your opinion if anything changes before reading my text.

@lmd @Eternity tutoring assignment: try analyzing this, writing down some comments, and reaching one of the four conclusions. Avoid spoilers including reddit until after you do that. Then read reddit replies and see if you have any further comments or change your mind about anything. Then after that you can read my comments and other people’s comments here and update one more time if you have further comments or mind changes.

Everyone can post in this topic without using spoiler tags. Just don’t read any of the replies before reading further if you’re avoiding spoilers.

Here’s the full original post because these sometimes get deleted:

Post text

My wife (32F) and I (31M) have been together for 5 years. I’m fed up with my wife’s chronic lateness to many things. It’s really annoying and grates on my nerves.

To her, it seems like no big deal because I always manage to rush her by telling her the time of an event 45 minutes earlier. She’s never noticed EARLIER because she’s too caught up with herself, constantly taking photos. That’s the reason she’s always late.

She has a decent following on Instagram and is looking to grow as a “content creator.” I find it really silly how she turns everything we do into a photo session, and at this point, I’ve stopped agreeing to take her photos altogether.

We’ve had several conversations about this. I’ve told her that it’s mentally exhausting for me to always have to stay on top of making sure we both get ready according to plan. But she never really does anything to address it.

This time, I wanted her to experience the consequences of her actions. This month alone, we’ve been embarrassingly late to events 2 times, and this time was the first she realized I hadn’t been honest about the timing because I used to give her an ETA 40 minutes earlier. A week ago, I told her I wouldn’t be doing that anymore and that I expected her to act like an adult and be more responsible.

It was her birthday this weekend, and I got her tickets to an event featuring several performers, including her favorite artists in the first act.

This time, as I’d already told her before, I didn’t give her the extra 40-minute buffer. I expected her to remember our conversation and store that information in her head to plan accordingly. Instead, she did her whole influencer routine—decorating our room, setting up studio lights, dressing up, and taking photos. The whole time, I knew she was missing out on her favorite artist because she didn’t take me seriously. It was so ironic that I didn’t even feel like reminding her. I’m done with the mental burden of always rushing and planning.

We arrived, and she realized what had happened. She got upset and started crying, asking how I could do this to her on her birthday. She said it seemed like I was liking the rise it got from her and asked why I couldn’t set my “ego” aside for one day. I told her this was on her, I’d already made it clear I wasn’t going to rush anymore, and she should have listened the first time and expected me to follow through, unlike her.

She said the whole point of the event was to see the performances of those artists, who we’d just missed. She was incredibly upset and kept crying off and on during the event.

The ride home was awkward. I was in the downstairs restroom when she texted me saying I wasn’t welcome in the bedroom that night. I ignored her message and went in while she was changing. She looked like she wanted to kill me, and I simply told her that her saying I’m not welcome was irrelevant because it’s my room too. If she’s uncomfortable, she could take the couch. She ended up leaving to visit her mom, and I’m considering whether I was an asshole?

My comments assume you’ve read the post first.

I used to give her an ETA 40 minutes earlier

local comment: ETA doesn’t mean deadline. this guy is not a precise thinker

A week ago, I told her I wouldn’t be doing that anymore

oh good i was worried he was going to change something without even telling her

getting a lot of bad vibes from him tho

I ignored her message and went in while she was changing.

She ended up leaving to visit her mom

dear god YTA

comment section

The irony of her mentioning YOUR ego!

wait what?

i thot it’d be heavily YTA

NTAH. This would infuriate me, and I wouldn’t have put up with it as long as you did. She’s an adult; she can figure it out if it’s important to her.

NTA but how did it get as far as 5 years married? I wouldn’t go past the 3rd date for someone who didn’t value my time as well as anyone else’s.

NTA. What are you doing dating someone with a highschool mentality at 32?

She sounds insufferable. I assume she’s hot, or you’d see that more clearly.

omfg

here i am wondering if that counts as SA and comments are strongly on his side

this has gotta be systemic misogyny. and the commenters are mostly lefties not Republicans, so it’s society-wide

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Im gonna be honest, I made the judgement of YTA right after reading in my head, cuz I kept thinking that the guy consciously and purposefully let his wife be late to show her a lesson. Why go the extra steps like that and making her feel bad? Why do all that?

I’m fed up with my wife’s chronic lateness to many things.

He seems to have a problem with her being late. Also, the problem is unsolved and is still going. It’s on his mind and acts based on that.

It’s really annoying and grates on my nerves.

It’s a big deal for him. Instead of saying, “It’s annoying sometimes” He is being detailed about it describing his wife’s late tendencies as ongoing and something he thinks a lot about.

To her, it seems like no big deal because I always manage to rush her by telling her the time of an event 45 minutes earlier.

I can see how this could be regular squabble between husband and wife that is not that big of a deal. Like, they get over it when the occasion starts or they acknowledge it in a casually passive way to each other.

It does seem annoying to tell someone like your partner to be on time with you. I think the lateness situation comes down to what each person wants like if the husband really wants to show up with his wife on time then that’s going to be hard. If he just wants to show up to party then he should go on his own and have his wife show up when she does. If they only have one car then I think he’ll have to wait for her or do the 45 minutes earlier rush thing.

It seems like the wife has to want to show up on time and see how her picture taking is affecting her being on time. Really, it sounds like both partners need to use problem solving skills to figure out their situation. Otherwise the same thing is going to keep happening.

I find it really silly how she turns everything we do into a photo session, and at this point, I’ve stopped agreeing to take her photos altogether.

Again, they have a disagreement about a lifestyle routine the wife has and nothing is going to change much without talking it out and problem solving and without not causing big drama to happen.

I’m done with the mental burden of always rushing and planning.

He doesn’t have to remind her of anything, but why do it on the day where there was something she and him were looking forward to? It could’ve been to an event with not much going on like a family gathering. I think he would still have a problem with the lateness cuz it seems like he wants to be on time.

I was in the downstairs restroom when she texted me saying I wasn’t welcome in the bedroom that night. I ignored her message and went in while she was changing. She looked like she wanted to kill me, and I simply told her that her saying I’m not welcome was irrelevant because it’s my room too.

This part does not sound ok to me. Why make it weirder than it already is? They’ll probably forgive each other later, but he kind of show who he is when doesn’t get his way. I dont know what he thought was going to happen when his wife saw the consequences of her lateness.

She ended up leaving to visit her mom, and I’m considering whether I was an asshole?

I dont know if he’s actually considering it or seeking validation. I dont think the two are mutually exclusive cuz he could feel guilty about the situation.

I still think it’s YTA, cuz he knows that his wife has a set pattern of behavior and he took advantage of that to make her feel bad. The wife’s lateness and her instagram lifestyle is way less worse than what he did to her.

Please edit so the quotes that aren’t by me don’t have my name on them or have nested quoting.

should be like

jklsdf

or like

All you have to do for no-name quotes is write “>” (or use the quote button if that’s annoying to type on mobile) and copy paste the quote after that.

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Oh dear, I was scrolling down the subreddit and some people suggest that the post is rage bait. One user says that they saw the same post word for word but with a different title.

I can’t tell if it’s fake and I didnt really suspect that when I first read the post. I still think people are capable of doing stuff like described in the post and it’s still realistic.

I do agree with one user when they said the wife is responsible for her chronic lateness. They were replying to a NTA reply agreeing with them. Like for sure the wife’s gotta work on her lateness and not just rely on the husband to do the work of being on time. I still think since it’s a marriage they gotta still talk it out and problem solve together.

Okay, my first opinion without reading any reddit comments or Elliots comments:

Summary:

I think that everyone is an asshole here. I think that the wife shouldn’t be putting her husband in the position of managing her time in order that they aren’t late to things. That sucks. But I don’t think that in this event that the husband was merely sticking up for himself. I think he wanted his wife to be hurt by her lateness, because he wanted her to feel bad, and I think he planned for that to happen and to happen on her birthday and for something she cared about.


This time, I wanted her to experience the consequences of her actions.

Insulating someone from the consequences of their actions deprives them of some opportunities to learn about their actions. It shelters them from reality. But this quote makes it seem like he wanted this to happen like this. He knew that her birthday would be ruined if he didn’t manage her time.

I think that, in part, he wants her to feel punished, or bad, for how frustrated her lateness has made him, and for her influencer lifestyle which he dislikes. He makes it out that he doesn’t like aspects of her influencer lifestyle because it makes them late to things, but he also has disagreements with it in general. He finds it silly:

I find it really silly how she turns everything we do into a photo session, and at this point, I’ve stopped agreeing to take her photos altogether.

It doesn’t seem that he’s just trying to honestly help his partner learn how to not be late, and sticking up for himself. In this kind of situation, I think that’s what it would mean to not be the asshole. He has committed to a marriage with this person and should be willing to put a lot of effort into helping them and solving problems with them. In this story, I sense retribution.

I was in the downstairs restroom when she texted me saying I wasn’t welcome in the bedroom that night. I ignored her message and went in while she was changing. She looked like she wanted to kill me, and I simply told her that her saying I’m not welcome was irrelevant because it’s my room too. If she’s uncomfortable, she could take the couch. She ended up leaving to visit her mom, and I’m considering whether I was an asshole?

It is his room too, but this is weird. I think if someone wants to be alone you should definitely not just ignore that. Walking in on someone changing when they’ve asked to be alone is a terrible situation.

Okay, first reddit comments i see are NTA.

Lots of people saying that she shouldn’t be late at 32 and being mean about her being an influencer.

None of this is having an effect on my position so far. There are things approximately like “NTA, but harsh to do it on her birthday”. Nothing so far has really pointed out that he seemed to want it to hurt her and what that means.

Okay so now I’m getting down to some ESH ones.

Someone mentions how he put the term ‘content creator’ in quotes. I didn’t notice it but I think that’s more evidence that he dislikes it, lateness aside.

I’m actually leaning a bit more to YTA after reading some of the ESH and YTA comments. I think because ESH makes them too equal. I think that what he’s done in this situation is worse than what she has done.

Blurred for Elliots comment spoilers:

Yeah I don’t think I saw any mentions of this aspect of the situation in the comments. Only that she had left for her mother’s.

I remember being surprised that he even included that part of the story considering how bad that is. And I don’t think that he said it because he felt he should be unbiased and give all details.

Edited quote: I copied it wrong so that it attributed that quote to you. That’s super bad, sorry I’ll be much more careful with quoting things sensitive like this.

Oh, just cuz the husband says, “We gotta be at the party by 3o’clock.” It doesnt mean: “Let’s leave the house by 2:50pm so we get there on time.”

I had to look up the meaning of ETA and deadline cuz I don’t think I fully get those words.

Didnt think about that. That would sound so bad if he didn’t communicate to her his decisions and two faced her.

Yeah, that was so bad what he did after they arrived home.

I liked the short responses you gave. Like, it doesn’t have to be something super deep and it’s sort of like talking with a friend. I want to do that next time

It’s not “sort of like” talking with a friend. I see how my text was ambiguous (doesn’t specify response to friend or to link) but my comments were to my friend originally.

The truth of Reddit stories gets questioned fairly often but it doesn’t matter much. They work as hypothetical scenarios. Most are widely agreed to be realistic. And the important thing is mostly the audience response, not the individuals in the story. If a few individuals do something really weird or bad, who cares? That’s just outlier behavior. If hundreds of comments say something, or comments with hundreds of upvotes say it, then you’re getting some evidence about what society is like.

My reaction to the post was that one guy was a jerk. I wouldn’t have shared the link here just for that. It was the comments and upvotes being on his side that stood out to me a lot more than the original post. So if the one guy being a jerk part isn’t a true story, it doesn’t make much difference to me.

OK you picked up on the guy being a jerk but let’s talk about this some. First:

If someone is an order of magnitude worse, I’d definitely answer NTA or YTA not ESH.


I think the OP is an unreliable narrator. I don’t trust everything he said. So one thing to consider is typical reasons things happen, rather than merely the reason he said they happen.

For example, he says she’s slow/late getting ready for events because she’s doing influencer stuff. Is that the single, exclusive reason? What are the typical reasons women are slow/late when getting ready?

This is particularly relevant because women being slow/late when getting ready is a common complaint and that’s informing a lot of the reactions in comments. It’s the dominant thing people are attacking her for. So it’s worthwhile to think through what the standard narrative around that lateness issue is: how common is it, who does it, what causes it, why is it bad, how bad is it, what are standard attempts to solve the problem and why do they often fail (they must fail a lot or it wouldn’t remain a widespread problem), etc.

One could also consider other forms of lateness, such as being late to work. I think that’s worth being aware of as an option if one wanted to take one’s analysis further, but I don’t think we should get into it at this time.

I revealed more comments a few times but it’s a really tedious system; Reddit really wants to limit your access to data. Then I searched for a few keywords like “sex” and “assault” but I couldn’t find any comments related to SA.

Oh ok, I had a feeling I missed the point of this thread after reading your responses at the end of the activity.

Yeah, that’s way more people than the one guy who made the post. You get to see genuine reactions from lots of people to a post.

My (pre-spoiler) analysis: YTA

First of all, I want to say that I think she’s pathetic (like almost everyone else is). She doesn’t take her life into her own hands.

I don’t think the guy should have lied about the events starting 40 minutes earlier than they actually did. I think that might have compounded the problem, because it could have made her judgements of how much time she needs less accurate. Instead, he should have confronted her about her untimeliness directly, and he should have done it much earlier.

When he told her he was lying about the 40 minutes and he wanted her to be more responsible, there’s a high chance that she did not completely understand the severity of what he planned to do, or how serious he was. If she did, I think she would have acted differently when she missed the concert (she would have recognized the justice of the situation and would have been upset with herself rather than being upset with him). So in the best case this was a communication issue (which would be his fault), or in the worst case, he wasn’t clear about it at all and he just sprung it on her (which would be really mean).

But even if he was completely clear, he should have known that he’s not going to be able get her to stop being pathetic with just one conversation. Things like that take a lot of time and effort and thought. There’s a reason why she’s acting the way she’s acting. So it would have been much kinder to give her some reminders and ease her into it gradually. In some sense he doesn’t owe her that, it’s her responsibility at the end of the day, but if he doesn’t want to work with her on improving, then he shouldn’t be married to her.

It was especially mean that he did it on her birthday, which is a sacred and special day.

She has a decent following on Instagram and is looking to grow as a “content creator.” I find it really silly how she turns everything we do into a photo session, and at this point, I’ve stopped agreeing to take her photos altogether.

This is not very relevant to the main thing (except that it’s evidence he treats her like a child), but I thought it was sad that she has what sounds like a major goal and that he finds it “really silly” that she pursues it. Why even be with her if this is your view of one of her major life goals?


Post-spoiler comment:

I wrote this largely because I was interested in seeing what ET’s analysis is. I was quite disappointed by it.

Were you disappointed because there wasn’t a lot analysis, because you disagree with me, or some other reason?

Both.

The disagreement is that I believe it would be utterly insane/rationalistic to categorize anything that happened in that story as sexual assault. I don’t think I actually want to talk about that, though.

Why?

To be clear I don’t think that what he’s done is just a little bit worse. I think it’s much worse. My comment is ambiguous regarding that. Also, I did update to YTA but I forgot to mention that. So I’m not still merely leaning towards YTA.

I think I answered ESH at first partly cos I wasn’t comparing them to each other enough, and partly because I didn’t understand how bad his behaviour was. Reading more comments helped with the latter.

Some thoughts on the post:

First, it’s not clear to me what he was actually doing to rush his wife, and what changed.

The only specific thing I found that he does to rush his wife is give a 40 or 45 minute buffer:

To her, it seems like no big deal because I always manage to rush her by telling her the time of an event 45 minutes earlier.

… I used to give her an ETA 40 minutes earlier. A week ago, I told her I wouldn’t be doing that anymore and that I expected her to act like an adult and be more responsible.

This time, as I’d already told her before, I didn’t give her the extra 40-minute buffer.

I’m not sure exactly what he means by that, but I assume he means something like saying they have to be there 40-45 minutes earlier than start time, or saying they have to leave 40-45 minutes earlier than they actually do.

I think of buffer time as just a standard part of figuring out timing for going anywhere. If I have a restaurant reservation at 7pm, and it takes 30 minutes to drive there, I might say we need to be there by 6:45pm and need to leave at 6pm. This gives extra time for a bit of traffic, getting into the car and realizing you forgot something inside, or it being difficult to find parking. I would give even more buffer time if I expected traffic and parking to be bad, if there will be a line, or if it’s really important.

Adding in buffer time just seems like a basic part of time management. I am not sure if that is what he means though. He is calling what he does mentally exhausting and a burden:

I’ve told her that it’s mentally exhausting for me to always have to stay on top of making sure we both get ready according to plan.

It was so ironic that I didn’t even feel like reminding her. I’m done with the mental burden of always rushing and planning.

The only thing he specified that he did differently this time was not giving her a 40 minute buffer. He says he didn’t “remind her”, but it’s not clear what that means. What didn’t he remind her of? I think he means he didn’t tell her that they needed to leave now/soon if they wanted to get there on time. But she seems to have not actually known they needed to leave at that point – she was surprised and upset when she got to the show because she didn’t realize they were late – so that wouldn’t have really been a reminder. It sounds like she actually did not know when the show started, or else I assume she would have been upset on the way to the show because she would have already realized she was missing it.

One interpretation that seems consistent with his telling is that they were going to a show that started at 8pm, so he told her they needed to be there at 8pm. And she assumed he meant that they needed to be just getting there at 8pm, and that would still give them time to park, maybe get food, stand in line, etc. So she thought being late would be OK, and they’d just have to rush. But really what he meant was that doors open at 7:30pm, and the show she wanted to see started at exactly 8pm, so they needed to be fully inside the venue and seated at 8pm.

Based on how he describes the event, something in that ballpark seems most likely to me. He says:

We arrived, and she realized what had happened.

That doesn’t make any sense if she actually new the true start time. If she was fully aware that the part of the show she wanted to see was happening from, say 8-8:30pm, then she would have realized that they were missing that part of the show while they were driving to the venue. The fact that she didn’t know what was happening until they got there makes it seem like she actually didn’t know the true start times.

He said:

It was her birthday this weekend, and I got her tickets to an event featuring several performers, including her favorite artists in the first act.

So he bought the tickets and was going to bring her to this show as her birthday present. It’s possible she had never even seen the tickets. When someone buys you tickets to bring you somewhere as a gift, it is common for them to hold the tickets the entire time. (And even when they don’t, it’s common for just one person to have the tickets, and it can actually be kind of socially awkward to insist to see or carry your own ticket.) And if someone is bringing you somewhere for your birthday, it is also common for them to be in charge of the time management and making sure you leave and get there in time. That is fairly standard for when you are specifically giving someone to an “experience” gift that you are bringing them to: you take care of all the details of making sure everything is ready and that you get there on time.

The actual story doesn’t really have a lot of details about the main issue. He isn’t being clear about what he was actually doing, and his telling doesn’t make much sense if you just take it at face value. He says that he had a mental burden from getting them places on time, but he doesn’t give any examples of the mental burden. The one example he does gives sounds like it could be just basic time management (giving buffer time), but it’s hard to tell what was really happening.

He decided to change policy on short notice, after five years of doing this. He apparently had one conversation with her about it, and expected her to remember what he was doing. And it’s not even clear what exactly he said to her or how he explained it:

… I used to give her an ETA 40 minutes earlier. A week ago, I told her I wouldn’t be doing that anymore and that I expected her to act like an adult and be more responsible.

So, according to him, he told her he would no longer be giving her 40 minutes of buffer time. (I assume he means he’d no longer give a 40 minute earlier start time, not an ETA, because that wouldn’t really make sense.) But when he was talking about what he did on the day, he said that he didn’t remind her. So that actually seems like something different than the thing he told her he would no longer be doing.

He did this specifically because he wanted to punish her:

This time, I wanted her to experience the consequences of her actions.

He actually seemed happy that she was upset:

The whole time, I knew she was missing out on her favorite artist because she didn’t take me seriously. It was so ironic that I didn’t even feel like reminding her.

She said it seemed like I was liking the rise it got from her and asked why I couldn’t set my “ego” aside for one day.

And he specifically chose to do this on her birthday. After five years, he decided the time to teach her a lesson was specifically on her birthday, and with a live show that she couldn’t just rebook to another date (instead of, say, a restaurant reservation or a movie, which could rebooked for later).

So far, he sounds like a jerk to me. I actually can’t tell if she is doing anything wrong from the story. It sounds like maybe she has bad time management skills, and does things to make them late. But since his own telling seems kind of incoherent to me, it also seems possible that he is the one with bad time management and unrealistic expectations, and he is just blaming her because he doesn’t like what she does with her time. Maybe he normally has really unrealistic expectations of how long it should take to get ready and go somewhere, and thinks needing to give any buffer time is some major concession to her, instead of just recognizing that it is a normal part of time management.

So my judgement at this point is definitely YTA to him. It could potentially be ESH if there was more info about him actually needing a lot of work into making sure she gets places on time. But he didn’t give enough info for me to be confident that is happening, whereas he did give enough info for me to think he is being a jerk.

She said the whole point of the event was to see the performances of those artists, who we’d just missed. She was incredibly upset and kept crying off and on during the event.

It’s so troubling that he did this to his wife and on her birthday, and still thinks he is just in the right here. Does he even like her? He says things in the post that indicate maybe he doesn’t:

… she’s too caught up with herself, constantly taking photos …

I find it really silly how she turns everything we do into a photo session, and at this point, I’ve stopped agreeing to take her photos altogether.

This part at the end is really troubling:

I was in the downstairs restroom when she texted me saying I wasn’t welcome in the bedroom that night. I ignored her message and went in while she was changing. She looked like she wanted to kill me, and I simply told her that her saying I’m not welcome was irrelevant because it’s my room too.

I agree that in general one spouse doesn’t have the right to take the bed after an argument. If they don’t want to sleep together, they can take the couch. (Though I think that if one of the spouses did something wrong and hurtful, the spouse that did something wrong should be willing to let the other spouse have the bed in that kind of situation.)

But the fact that you share a room doesn’t give you the right to walk in on the other person changing if they don’t want you there. You both share the bathroom too, but that doesn’t give you the right to walk in on your spouse on the toilet or in the shower if they don’t want that. People are entitled to privacy even when they are married and even when they share a room. Marrying someone does NOT entitle you to see them naked any time you want to. Even if the default in your marriage is to not have that kind of privacy, you both need to be respectful any time the other person asks for privacy or indicates they don’t want you there.

When she said he couldn’t sleep in the bed, I would support his right to say that it’s his bed too, and if she doesn’t want to sleep together she could sleep on the couch. (Even if I think he was in the wrong, and he hurt her, and he should be apologizing and going out of his way to make amends, including letting her have the bed. I still think he has the right to not give up the bed.)

But I don’t think he has the right to see her changing. He walked in on her changing when she had already made it clear she did not want him there, and then when she looked unhappy with him (“She looked like she wanted to kill me”) he just stayed in the room and said that he was justified to be there (“I simply told her that her saying I’m not welcome was irrelevant because it’s my room too”). People have the right to change in privacy, regardless of whether they share a room.

There’s no way to tell how she was feeling during this. But if she was feeling threatened, it makes sense that she wouldn’t have said anything. He already seemed happy that he taught her a lesson that made her cry on her birthday. He ignored her when she said she didn’t want him in the room and came in anyway while she was changing, and then ignored the fact that she looked upset that he was there. So it’s quite possible that from her perspective, any further escalation could lead to violence. She may not have personally felt this way – it’s not possible to tell either way from his story.

His actions could reasonably be taken as threatening by a reasonable person though. And if you are physically weaker than someone and in a vulnerable position, it makes sense to not push to find out if they are actually trying to be threatening or if they are just unaware. In either case, accusing them of being threatening can work out badly for you. If they meant to be threatening, putting it out in the open like that can lead to violence. And if they didn’t mean to be threatening, putting it out in the open can lead to things like the other person getting upset and expecting you to comfort them, because they are so sad and hurt that you thought they might be abusive (which can be another form of emotional abuse, even if unintentional).

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