This is what DD was like in Dec 1996, 5 years before I met him, and it’s the tone he (and SFC, who was similar) set in his community. (He later, absurdly and cruelly, put some blame on me for the tone.) This is a post to the public TCS list:
Angela [ET’s note: I deleted her last name here] is enraged at the way I responded to Stephen:
Stephen:
It doesn’t really matter what anyone on this list thinks about
circumcision, what matters is they don’t make their child do anything
Those who circumcise their children
without their children’s consent are going against TCS theories.
David:
At last someone (other than Sarah) has said something relevant (as well as
true) on this thread. Thank you Stephen.
Angela said:
David, you are being rude. I am tired of overlooking it, so I
decided to point it out. I plan to keep doing it.
I hope you get tired of me pointing it out, so you quit being so
damn rude. Who the hell wants to hang out where they are assaulted
by arrogrant snide remarks? I (and the rest of us too) do not need
you to tell me whether my posts are “relevant (as well as true).”
Unless you have something useful and specific to say, please don’t
broadly insult so many of us at once. At least show us the
courtesy of assaulting us one at a time!
OK, I’ll start with you. I deny that it is either rude or insulting to
claim that someone’s posting is irrelevant (or false). Nor is it rude or
insulting to claim that almost everyone’s postings on a particular thread
are irrelevant. Such a claim may be false or exaggerated; it may be
“arrogant”; but (provided that the arrogant person is not arrogating
power) this cannot amount to a verbal “assault”, nor is it remotely a
justification for becoming
God, I’m so mad at you!
enraged with that person. I do not deserve this, and I ask you to desist.
Also, as it happens, it is mildly insulting to expect someone to rein in
their criticisms of others just because they “get tired” of being called
“damn rude”, rather than because they are persuaded that they are being
rude (or mistaken).
I assume that this criticism:
I (and the rest of us too) do not need you to tell me whether my posts
are “relevant (as well as true).”
does not mean what it seems to, namely that you wish me to refrain from
commenting adversely on the relevance or truth of a majority opinion.
Surely no rational discussion could survive such a prohibition.
Unless you have something useful and
specific to say, please don’t broadly insult so many of us at once.
So I take it that your criticism is that I was not specific enough, so that
my un-elaborated assertion that Stephen’s and Sarah’s postings were
“relevant (as well as true)” was patronising to them and frustrating (or,
as you believe, insulting) to everyone else.
I disagree. There was no need for more detail because a detailed argument
had recently been given by Sarah, and a related, more succinct point had
just been posted by Stephen, and I was agreeing with him. In passing I was
expressing to him the spontaneous emotion of relief that I felt when
reading what he had said. This was not rude. I myself had just posted a
short but specific argument (in the form of a question, asking why the
correct position in the circumcision debate is not simply to leave the
decision to the boy or man in question).
I venture to suggest that in this case, rudeness was in the eye of the
beholder. It is of course possible that you will persuade me that there was
something reprehensible in my posting (though not, I guarantee, by mere
repetition of the charge until I tire of it). But until that happens please
note that it is not humanly possible for me to implement the solution you
suggest, namely that in future I make my postings “useful and specific”,
because I believe that they already are. I’m sorry that you are distressed
by them; I really have no idea why. But for the moment it seems to me that
a better solution would be for you to cease reading them until your rage
abates.
– David Deutsch
DD was egregiously rude, got called out on it, and then fully denied everything while also attacking one of the people he’d initially been so rude to. He’s like “I did absolutely nothing wrong, but you were very bad for calling me out. How dare you mistreat me like that!” What a jerk! He used a bunch of sophistry, fancy words, pseudo logic, etc. – seemingly clever, intellectual type stuff – to try to overwhelm and control his victim. DD uses wit as a weapon (e.g. “Surely no rational discussion could survive such a prohibition.” which wasn’t actually logically fair) and does tons of social dynamics posturing (like “I venture to suggest”).
Calling people’s ideas false and irrelevant, while making no attempt to explain or give arguments, is rude and unproductive. Doing it indirectly and making a show of thanking someone (allegedly) superior and saying “at last” (to indicate you’re fed up with all the bad posts) is mean.
BTW in 2009, in a private email, I mentioned to DD that I’d seen this old post, and I thought he was rude. I offered to explain why it was rude if he hadn’t changed his mind already. He did not reply by email (it’s possible he replied in IMs instead, which are hard to check, but I’d guess not). Angela also offered to talk about it in a pretty friendly, reasonable reply on list and DD didn’t reply (nor did anyone else).
